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Post by Crimson Cowl on Jul 9, 2008 9:34:46 GMT -5
Doctor Bong wrote:
Gratified, old boy. You can't help but feel that you're treading on coals when engaging with a subject like this, which I guess is the point, so the vote of confidence is greatly appreciated!
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Doctor Bong
Reservist Avenger
Master of belly dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 167
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jul 9, 2008 9:52:14 GMT -5
Shiryu, do we have a thread on favorite Avengers line-ups...? I can't remember...
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Post by talestoastonish on Jul 22, 2008 22:29:06 GMT -5
I am glad to see that I am nowhere near being alone in feeling that Founding Avengers Giant-Man and the Wasp have come to be recurring victims of shoddy editorial vision and handling. It was a bleak spring for me in '65 when the duo disappeared not just from the pages of The Avengers (#16 - along with Iron Man and Thor) but then a month later totally vanished from The Marvel Universe with the discontinuance of their strip in Tales To Astonish #69.
HOPEFULLY the upcoming Ant-Man and Avengers movies will restore Hank and Jan to the stature of The Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Captain America.
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Jul 23, 2008 13:53:38 GMT -5
talestoastonish:
Don't count on it. I've heard that most of the movie is going to be dedicated to the later versions (Scott Lang, and the other guy whose name has escaped me,) but Hank and Jan will be in it!
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Post by ultron69 on May 6, 2009 7:46:32 GMT -5
I do think that Hank has gotten a bit of a bum rap over the years, both from writers and from fans. Still he has always been a bit of a hothead. I do wish he'd just get back to being a scientist type, without all of the baggage that writers feel like heaping on him.
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Post by ultron69 on Jun 13, 2009 13:53:41 GMT -5
OK, I just finished rereading the arc in the 220's where Pym goes to jail, gets kidnapped by Egghead's gang, and Egghead eventually dies. I have a question. I thought that by this time, the Pym particles were essentially part of him (and the Wasp) so that his power to shrink was not something that could be removed, at least no easily. However, it is obvious in these issues that he cannot shrink. Wassup withat?
I don't know how someone could read through all of these issues and not feel at least a little bit bad for Dr. Pym.
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 13, 2009 14:59:58 GMT -5
OK, I just finished rereading the arc in the 220's where Pym goes to jail, gets kidnapped by Egghead's gang, and Egghead eventually dies. I have a question. I thought that by this time, the Pym particles were essentially part of him (and the Wasp) so that his power to shrink was not something that could be removed, at least no easily. However, it is obvious in these issues that he cannot shrink. Wassup withat? I don't know how someone could read through all of these issues and not feel at least a little bit bad for Dr. Pym. I first read this arc at a time when I'd started collecting again after a hiatus, and- man- it tore out the ol' heartstrings. And, yes, I completely agree-- watching Hank just come entirely unglued like that and abuse Jan and destroy his life is a horrible thing to bear witness to. And I thought it was handled very, very well. He did things that were nigh-on unforgivable, and ultimately took full responsibility, and bore the weight of his transgressions. Bore them with grim resolve--- which I think was a very, very valuable lesson to take from that arc. I'm . . . not sure how he and Janet were able to get back into a relationship again--- that's always struck me as. . . . forced, maybe? But of course, that probably happens in the real world more often than it doesn't, so who am I to judge? The heart is complex-- HB
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Post by ultron69 on Jun 15, 2009 7:26:59 GMT -5
I think the thing that made me root for Hank is that he ultimately said "this is no one's fault but my own". Indeed a valuable lesson, especially in today's society, where people are always looking for a scapegoat when something goes wrong, or somebody to sue when something bad happens to us, even if through our own stupidity.
Yes, too many women go back to men that abuse them. In fact, what Hank did is nothing compared to many of those relationships!
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Post by bobc on Jun 15, 2009 9:50:00 GMT -5
Hank--I agree completely. I found the hysterical nervous breakdowns over the fact that Hank slapped Jan once really phony and stupid. Nobody was condoning what happened but people make mistakes and the way that one moment has defined that character for decades is asinine--particularly when you compare it to the fact that male characters were constantly beating the crap out of each other every issue, year in year out. And how many times have female superheroes slapped male superheroes? Happens all the time. In fact, Black Canary just punched the Green Arrow in the face for "embarrassing her" a month or two ago and no one batted an eye.
Political Correctness infantilizes women and minorities, which is why I despise it.
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Post by Tana Nile on Jun 15, 2009 20:14:02 GMT -5
At the time when Hank hit Jan -and it left a big honking black eye, so it was a little more than a slap -I was shocked as hell, because heroes were still heroes back then. Things were still more black and white and to see a hero hit his wife....well, it meant he wasn't a hero any more!
But I thought that there were real efforts made to show Hank trying to make up for his mistake. Especially over in West Coast Avengers, where Englehart showed how much pain Hank had gone through and how hard he was trying to change. It seemed he had achieved redemption.
But then Bendis and other writers have conveniently forgotten that and Pym is now everyone's whipping boy. Slott seems to be trying to make Pym a hero again, but unfortunately at the expense of the characterizations of Iron Man and Reed Richards, to name two.
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Post by ultron69 on Sept 25, 2009 7:59:27 GMT -5
I wonder if the writer (Shooter, I think) had any idea how much of a long lasting impact that slap would have.
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