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Post by thew40 on Feb 23, 2007 20:14:43 GMT -5
Just wondering . . .
Despite the controversy over "Civil War," how do people feel about the new concept birthed out of it: the 50-State Initiative?
New super-heroes, old super-heroes with teams set-up in all 50 states. Outside of the Avengers and the Thunderbolts, there's potential here for 48 series!
~W~
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Post by spiderwasp on Feb 23, 2007 20:23:13 GMT -5
Just wondering . . . Despite the controversy over "Civil War," how do people feel about the new concept birthed out of it: the 50-State Initiative? New super-heroes, old super-heroes with teams set-up in all 50 states. Outside of the Avengers and the Thunderbolts, there's potential here for 48 series! ~W~ Great! Finally, I'll have a use for that extra $144 a month I've been trying to get rid of.
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Post by thew40 on Feb 23, 2007 22:47:08 GMT -5
Just wondering . . . Despite the controversy over "Civil War," how do people feel about the new concept birthed out of it: the 50-State Initiative? New super-heroes, old super-heroes with teams set-up in all 50 states. Outside of the Avengers and the Thunderbolts, there's potential here for 48 series! ~W~ Great! Finally, I'll have a use for that extra $144 a month I've been trying to get rid of. [sigh] I really hate this place sometimes . . . Me: "I want to talk about something I'm really excited about." You: "I'm going to reply sarcastically and rain on your parade. Excited about somethng? No. I hate Marvel." ~W~
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Post by spiderwasp on Feb 24, 2007 0:23:17 GMT -5
I really feel sorry for you. It must be tough going through life completely void of a sense of humor. You said there could potentially be 48 new titles. Sorry if it's raining on your parade to joke about the cost of that but there is no one else on this board that has your one track mind. Let's all say nice things about Marvel. Let's not discuss rationally or make jokes, let's just say things that are nice. I certainly didn't not say nor imply that I don't like Marvel. I do hate the idea of 48 new books. You may be quite wealthy and excited about that. I, on the other hand, think it would be complete overkill and, in addition to the costs, I have way too much to do to read that many titles. You need to get it into your head that a discussion is not just a bunch of people agreeing with everything you say. If I make a comment about the cost of the thing you are excited about and you want to come back to me with an intellegent response that shows me why 48 new titles would be a good thing or how Marvel could make it affordable, great. If all you can come back with is "You hate Marvel" maybe you should step aside and leave the discussions for the grown ups. Oh, and for the record, I wasn't even criticizing Marvel because to my knowledge, neither Joe Q nor anyone else has suggested 48 new titles. I was actually responding to your idea, not theirs. Rex has frequently expressed his annoyance with the whole way that everytime someone makes a valid point (Which the $144 is) that your only response is "You're a hater." Well, you're right. I hate your responses. There it's official - I"m a hater.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 24, 2007 1:40:25 GMT -5
Of course, we need to wait & see what Marvel actually does with the idea but, in theory, I'd say I agree with spiderwasp: it seems like a blatant case of overkill... Even if Marvel has no plans for creating books for the vast majority of those groups, just the fact that all those groups are gonna be out there, operating, seems like an unnecessary complicated idea... Really, would a state like North Dakota (no offense to any North Dakotans who might be reading this...) actually NEED a superteam on a regular basis...? And another thing, while we're on the subject: it seems to me that to have that many supertypes all over the states, government training or not, would in fact increase the chances of another civilian catastrophe like the one which triggered the SRA taking place. Just my opinion...
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Post by thew40 on Feb 24, 2007 12:29:19 GMT -5
And another thing, while we're on the subject: it seems to me that to have that many supertypes all over the states, government training or not, would in fact increase the chances of another civilian catastrophe like the one which triggered the SRA taking place. Just my opinion... I would think they would be better and more properly trained than the New Warriors were, esspecially in consideration of the events of Stamford -- ie. making sure you don't fight someone in front of school, how to direct the fight away from civilians, etc. ~W~
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Post by The Night Phantom on Feb 24, 2007 13:23:55 GMT -5
Just wondering . . . Despite the controversy over "Civil War," how do people feel about the new concept birthed out of it: the 50-State Initiative? Great! Finally, I'll have a use for that extra $144 a month I've been trying to get rid of. [sigh] I really hate this place sometimes . . . You explicitly requested opinions, and you got one. Next time, if the only opinion you want to hear is yours, try being more specific.
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Post by redstatecap on Feb 24, 2007 13:31:29 GMT -5
I would think they would be better and more properly trained than the New Warriors were, esspecially in consideration of the events of Stamford -- ie. making sure you don't fight someone in front of school, how to direct the fight away from civilians, etc.~W~ You do understand the fact that Marvel writers do not "channel" the events of an alternate universe filled with superheroes, yes? The New Warriors fought Nitro in front of a school because the writer wrote that they fought Nitro in front of a school. Looked at another way -- how many times have the Avengers, or take any other superhero team -- fought high-powered villains in the middle of downtown New York with zero casualties? Did that outcome happen because "they were better trained?" No, it happened because the writer wrote it that way. Let's be honest -- shooting it out with Ultron in the middle of Manhatten should be guaranteed to cause mass civilian casualties. But back to the basic topic -- the "50 States Initiative." I can be honest and say that, in its most basic form, this is the best idea by far to come out of CW. That isn't to say that I agree with the "50 States Initiative" as it is being executed -- meaning 50 separate teams, filled out by an unconstitutional draft on superheroes. I find that to be almost as ridiculous as the rest of CW. What I mean is that -- at the most basic level -- the idea to decentralize the MU from New York city is an excellent idea and very long overdue. Unfortunately, while I appreciate this development in principle and have wanted to see it for 25 years, it is perhaps irretrievably marred by what Marvel did to get from point A to point B. If decentralization from New York is the real legacy of CW, all I have to say is that it didn't take all the ridiculous crap happening in CW to bring it about. I can think of any number of legitimate, compelling stories to bring about the same result. On to the Avengers: Initiative. I haven't read Mr. Slott's work, but I have heard a lot of good things about him. From that, I think he could do a good job with an Avengers title and I would love to get on board an Avengers book that featured a voice other than Bendis'. Unfortunately, my level of disgust with CW is so intense that I simply refuse to purchase anything associated with or coming out of it. That means Mr. Slott's book, through no fault of his own. RSC
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 24, 2007 14:08:54 GMT -5
RSC, MOST of that is the type of post I for one don't mind reading. You express your objection to an idea, you say it could be good, you give reasons why it could be good and things you view as bad about it. Of course it does fall apart a bit at places but still. I think you're robbing yourself of a very good chance- you've made clear that you dislike the direction of the marvel universe, so why not try out books that you may actually enjoy? Not reading a book on principle is nearly as ridiculous as me READING a book on principle. I was being stubborn and stupid when I read New Avengers based only on the fact that it was "Avengers" (Now I read it and derive actual enjoyment from it based on the fact that it's not avengers). I think it's very stubborn and a bit stupid to be honest to NOT read a book just because it's connected to a story you don't like. After all, if we never read anything associated with Heroes Reborn we wouldn't have the celebrated Busiek run!
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 24, 2007 14:21:41 GMT -5
For the sake of my wallet, I hope that doesn't mean 48 more books (I doubt anyone could afford it) ;D
As for the idea itself, it doesn't touch me much, but I think it's because I'm not American, so for me it doesn't make any difference if the heroes are in NY, LA, Boston or Chigago. It's all America ^^ I would probably feel different if the teams were in France, Italy, Germany, UK etc.
However, I am thrilled by YJ and Firebird being in the same team... wonder if this will bring something to their possible romance.
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Post by balok on Feb 24, 2007 14:44:00 GMT -5
I doubt they'd have fifty books total - but the decentralization offers an easy answer for the question: if this guy is so tough, why aren't <fill in team name> getting some help from their down the street friends <fill in team name>. In theory, they could also exploit the local area knowledge of a particular writer to craft believable background for a team situated in the location he knows well.
I could see them crafting three or four more books, with most of them exploring teams in a major population center, and perhaps a book that has a rotating creative team, where each story explores a particular team of heroes - and when that story is over, the setting and writers both change. That would expose many of the teams without overexposing them, and keep the book fresh (as rotating talent normally does).
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Post by The Night Phantom on Feb 24, 2007 15:12:06 GMT -5
What I mean is that -- at the most basic level -- the idea to decentralize the MU from New York city is an excellent idea and very long overdue. Unfortunately, while I appreciate this development in principle and have wanted to see it for 25 years, it is perhaps irretrievably marred by what Marvel did to get from point A to point B. If decentralization from New York is the real legacy of CW, all I have to say is that it didn't take all the ridiculous crap happening in CW to bring it about. I can think of any number of legitimate, compelling stories to bring about the same result. One doesn’t really even need a particular overarching story to make the change. In the ’70s and ’80s, many Marvel Universe series were regularly set outside New York: Champions and later West Coast Avengers in Los Angeles, Daredevil in San Francisco, Son of Satan in Saint Louis, Man-Thing in Florida, Alpha Flight in Canada, Tomb of Dracula in various locations including Europe, etc.
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Post by thew40 on Mar 8, 2007 20:58:55 GMT -5
I was/am re-reading "Maximum Security" (of which I will be posting a review of in a little while) and I have to point to that as an example as a good situation in which having each state have it's own super-team would be of some good.
Aliens just showing up all over the place, Earth becoming a penal colony for the rest of the universe. Super-heroes were needed everyone. Now, the situation would be better contained.
. . . other than Earth turning into Ego.
~W~
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 8, 2007 23:46:29 GMT -5
Funny you should mention Maximum Security, thew40... Over the General Board I just posted a new thread asking a question regarding that event... I wonder if you would be kind enough to take a look & perhaps even answer my question.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 19, 2007 18:24:18 GMT -5
here's my thing. You know Texas will have a texas themed team.
So this is what scares me,.. what kind of team would South Carolina have? Exactly how many redneck superheroes do we have available to us?
US Agent doesn't count. he's in Canada
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 19, 2007 18:33:06 GMT -5
Redneck land? I<Resists urge to name Ignorant Man, Bush's Bigot Boy and-> Okay no, that was very cheap, very low and I apologize most sincerely for it. Please don't smite me! If it's any comfort, we'll probably never actually see a South Carolina team.
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Post by balok on Mar 19, 2007 18:39:29 GMT -5
Texas has a Texas themed team because there already was such a team, and it's relatively easy to just add them to the roles intact (assuming all of them are willing to enlist and undergo the training).
Those states that lack teams might not get themed teams. They might just get people interested in working in their part of the country, who work well together, etc.
But this leads to an interesting question: since the Initiative is a government sponsored thing, will their be individuals they can't accept for one reason or another? For example, someone whose powers or modus operandi is explicitly religious might not be permitted on a government team, because of the implication that the government endorses that religion? Sure, government employees can be religious, but they cannot, as representatives of the government, extol the virtues of their religion. So "The Fundamentalist" whose divine powers help him against evil men is right out. Similarly, "Johnny Reb" a Confederate themed soldier type, would offend too many people - a political minefield. Good bye.
On the other hand, I am reminded of Blofeld's line from Diamonds are Forever: "The satellite is at present over... Kansas. Well, if we destroy Kansas the world may not hear about it for years..."
My guess is they'll start with teams in the problem states, and then send some of those folks with green recruits to the states where supervillains never seem to go.
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 19, 2007 20:12:59 GMT -5
Texas has a Texas themed team because there already was such a team, and it's relatively easy to just add them to the roles intact (assuming all of them are willing to enlist and undergo the training). Those states that lack teams might not get themed teams. They might just get people interested in working in their part of the country, who work well together, etc. But this leads to an interesting question: since the Initiative is a government sponsored thing, will their be individuals they can't accept for one reason or another? For example, someone whose powers or modus operandi is explicitly religious might not be permitted on a government team, because of the implication that the government endorses that religion? Sure, government employees can be religious, but they cannot, as representatives of the government, extol the virtues of their religion. So "The Fundamentalist" whose divine powers help him against evil men is right out. Similarly, "Johnny Reb" a Confederate themed soldier type, would offend too many people - a political minefield. Good bye. On the other hand, I am reminded of Blofeld's line from Diamonds are Forever: "The satellite is at present over... Kansas. Well, if we destroy Kansas the world may not hear about it for years..." My guess is they'll start with teams in the problem states, and then send some of those folks with green recruits to the states where supervillains never seem to go. Supposedly there will be a Mormon team in Utah (CW6). But you make a good point, with separation of church and state, unless the team is open to members of all religious backgrounds, and religion does not play a role in the way the team functions, such a team could be unconstitutional. Although I do love the idea of Mormon superheroes, or any hero with a strong religious belief. If written well, we could see a protagonist with many hard choices to make.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 19, 2007 20:29:42 GMT -5
Supposedly there will be a Mormon team in Utah (CW6). But you make a good point, with separation of church and state, unless the team is open to members of all religious backgrounds, and religion does not play a role in the way the team functions, such a team could be unconstitutional. I’ve not read Civil War #6. What is the nature and context of this claim? (E.g., could it be a silly quip or a statement made out of ignorance?) If the Utah team is made up of locals and/or people who think moving to Utah would be swell, I suppose that the local demographics raise the chances that a small group might end up being all-Mormon ( according to Wikipedia, Utah’s population is over 62% Mormon— cf. Rhode Island, which Wikipedia claims is over 63% Roman Catholic). But if such homogeneity is by chance and not design, it could pass muster in court. How about an all-Thorite team? ;D
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 19, 2007 21:14:01 GMT -5
Well Rhode Island could have Big Bertha and the Blob(if he hadn't lost his powers) That would pretty much 'cover' the state
Massachusets should have an all paranormal team, based out of Salem.
Michigan would have super based in Detroit with mechanically based powers.
North Dakota should have people with heat based powers asn Arizona should have cold-based powers
That's all I can think of.
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 20, 2007 19:59:40 GMT -5
Supposedly there will be a Mormon team in Utah (CW6). But you make a good point, with separation of church and state, unless the team is open to members of all religious backgrounds, and religion does not play a role in the way the team functions, such a team could be unconstitutional. I’ve not read Civil War #6. What is the nature and context of this claim? (E.g., could it be a silly quip or a statement made out of ignorance?) If the Utah team is made up of locals and/or people who think moving to Utah would be swell, I suppose that the local demographics raise the chances that a small group might end up being all-Mormon ( according to Wikipedia, Utah’s population is over 62% Mormon— cf. Rhode Island, which Wikipedia claims is over 63% Roman Catholic). But if such homogeneity is by chance and not design, it could pass muster in court. How about an all-Thorite team? ;D I pulled out CW6, and the Mormon team statement is made by then-Director Hill to Hank Pym: Hill: The Champions in California, those Mormon heroes in Utah and the Spaceknights heading for Chicago. But who did we get for Iowa again? Are you sending the Force Works people over there? It appears to be made in all seriousness by the character. I'm not sure the writer was serious...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 25, 2007 22:31:30 GMT -5
Yeah, agent Hill hasn't really been known for her sparkling wit and humor
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 27, 2007 17:26:32 GMT -5
I pulled out CW6, and the Mormon team statement is made by then-Director Hill to Hank Pym: Hill: The Champions in California, those Mormon heroes in Utah and the Spaceknights heading for Chicago. But who did we get for Iowa again? Are you sending the Force Works people over there? It appears to be made in all seriousness by the character. I'm not sure the writer was serious... Thanks for doing the research. I don’t know what to make of it. Since I have qualms about Millar’s characterization of established Marvel characters, Millar’s understanding of American culture, and the whole Maria Hill character, it’s difficult for me to evaluate this dialogue at all.
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 3, 2007 12:51:38 GMT -5
Well, if they do have an all-Mormon team, don't you think they'd have to be called The Saints?!
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 3, 2007 13:39:05 GMT -5
Well, if they do have an all-Mormon team, don't you think they'd have to be called The Saints?! Maybe even lead by the luchador El Santo, returned from the dead...
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