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Post by overlord on Apr 9, 2007 20:12:58 GMT -5
Notice how almost none of the major crossovers in marvel (Dissambled, WWH and CW) don't really involve super villains. Will super villains get their own crossover in the future?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 10, 2007 4:46:09 GMT -5
I'll repost what I said at CBR:
"There is constant talk about 2008 as a big year and Hell, some are even ignoring WWH and saying this is the breather year. Mark Millar has spoken of 2008 as a monster year for Marvel, with a mysterious book he claims will breach 500k in sales and be something he can never top, and says he feels very sorry for DC at that time. Bendis has spoken of huge plans for 08, and we know he's building up The Hood as a big villain recruiting the rest, with payoffs to some plot threads affecting the entire universe. Plus constant comments made by one person or another about how the villains have been sitting it out, ready to make their moves, how they haven't just been sitting idle in reality, etc, etc
Maybe I'm putting 2 and 2 together to make 5, I dunno."[/quote]
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 10, 2007 16:32:35 GMT -5
What villians would be involved in such a large undertaking? and wouldn't they just be re-hashing 'acts of vengeance'?
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Post by balok on Apr 10, 2007 17:57:18 GMT -5
Five hundred thousand books? That's... ambitious.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 11, 2007 4:07:37 GMT -5
To say the least ! It does sound a lot like Acts of Vengeance redux, and I suppose it's harder to write heroes off books than villains, but I wonder what they have in mind and the impact it has (especially on the Initiative). Maybe after it, heroes will realize they have villains to fight rather then other heroes.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 11, 2007 5:34:33 GMT -5
Marvel does have several well developed villians. The problem is that they are so well developed as individuals it would be hard to write them in a believable team dynamic, due to their egos, this being something pointed out inb the Acts of Vengeance series.
I think it would have potential to be interesting. I just don't know that Marvel has the talent (not saying I could do better) for such an endeavor right now.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 11, 2007 5:38:27 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but Acts of Vengeance was just swapping villains with heroes, right? There are many ways this could be done without resorting to that.
In any case, 500k is VERY ambitious... on the other hand, Millar correctly predicted civil war would beat 350k and EVERYONE laughed at that idea then...
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 11, 2007 9:13:33 GMT -5
Given the subject matter and how things proceeded I don't think 350 K was an unreachable goal for Civil War. I do think 500 K is going to be a bit of a stretch. No book in the last few years has hit that milestone. I do find it interesting though that of the stuff in the earlier posts that none of Millar's points are about how good the story is; just that it will sell well and make DC unhappy, which seems to be Joe Q's mantra these days. I just think it sounds somewhat shallow, like a guy who promises he'll show up at a party with the hottest chick...
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Post by balok on Apr 11, 2007 12:41:55 GMT -5
Joe Q regards DC as a bitter enemy instead of a business rival. It shows in various comments he makes. He'd like to drive them out of business, I guess, which probably won't happen.
People like that usually suffer from self-esteem or self-confidence problems.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 15:45:01 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but Acts of Vengeance was just swapping villains with heroes, right? There are many ways this could be done without resorting to that. . If you mean swapping the heroes each villian usually faces, yes. But there was also a master planning group that was supposed to be behind things. Ego got in the way and smashed everything up.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 15:45:32 GMT -5
If The Hood turns out to be Loki, we'll know there's a problem.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 12, 2007 16:28:54 GMT -5
Joe Q regards DC as a bitter enemy instead of a business rival. It shows in various comments he makes. He'd like to drive them out of business, I guess, which probably won't happen. People like that usually suffer from self-esteem or self-confidence problems. Er... no. In fact, he's said a thousand times his aim was to rebuild the rivalry between DC fanboys and Marvel fanboys to a bigger high, which he definitely did. And guess what- then he mostly laid off the DC comments, except when he mocks them. I'd say he has a very healthy attitude to DC, though he most definitely can get carried away. If you want a very UNHEALTHY attitude to the competition, take Paul Levitz. And imperius, I think your comments about Millar are WAY offbase. Millar's said a thousand times there's loads of DC work he wants to do, but he thinks Marvel are kicking their asses creatively at this time. Not "saleswise"- though they are doing that as well.
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 12, 2007 17:07:16 GMT -5
Joe Q regards DC as a bitter enemy instead of a business rival. It shows in various comments he makes. He'd like to drive them out of business, I guess, which probably won't happen. People like that usually suffer from self-esteem or self-confidence problems. Er... no. In fact, he's said a thousand times his aim was to rebuild the rivalry between DC fanboys and Marvel fanboys to a bigger high, which he definitely did. And guess what- then he mostly laid off the DC comments, except when he mocks them. I'd say he has a very healthy attitude to DC, though he most definitely can get carried away. If you want a very UNHEALTHY attitude to the competition, take Paul Levitz. And imperius, I think your comments about Millar are WAY offbase. Millar's said a thousand times there's loads of DC work he wants to do, but he thinks Marvel are kicking their asses creatively at this time. Not "saleswise"- though they are doing that as well. But they're not offbase based on what you're saying here. Re-read your first statement. What I'm saying is based off of that. He may have said a million nice things before, but that's not what you quoted here...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 12, 2007 17:34:45 GMT -5
Oh my fault, miscommunication. I'm just posting the parts relevant to the idea of a giant villain crossover, not the rest- that's not an exact quote or anything.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 17:44:35 GMT -5
Let me ask another 'what if' question
if the villians could get organized, and I mean the heavy hitters.
Could they do serious damage to the supergroups right now?
I think they really could. But it would have to be now, while everything is re-adjusting. I also think it might make an interesting storyline that would go along perfectly with what is going on right now.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 12, 2007 17:51:16 GMT -5
Who do you mean by that though? Doom alone could wreak enormous damage right now, I'm sure most other majors could. But as Acts of vbengeance proved,t he heaviest hitters are too incompatible- Red Skull and Magneto can't be within 10 miles of each other, Doom and Red Skull could scarcely last too much longer
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 18:02:11 GMT -5
That's the thing about the entire premise that makes me question. They could rally many low and several mid-range baddies but you could only have one maybe two, top notch baddies. and without top-notch baddies involved 2 things happen. It becaomes less interesting for us. Also the Top-notch baddies not included would certainly see this as a threat to their own power and fight it as well.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 12, 2007 18:54:09 GMT -5
Absolutely. I can even see some of the main players from Acts of Vengeance getting together again (sans Loki) & mentioning how they have learned from their mistakes & how it's time to do it right... They'd plan a massive escape from 42 & probably get the Thunderbolts on their side...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 20:14:02 GMT -5
Learning from past mistakes ,.. I don't think that this would apply here. All of the villians in question would blame the mistakes from that run on the OTHER villians, and Loki.
I still cant see getting any three top baddies together without ego or ulterior motives getting in the way. This would still be fun, but would wind up just a re-hash of Acts O' Vengeance.
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Post by Alchemist-X on Apr 12, 2007 21:11:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna guess that it's gonna be one of Doctor Strange's rouges gallery that masterminds a sort of Marvel Villians united. Magic slaves is the only way to make a team of villians large enough to rival the innitiative.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 13, 2007 9:50:03 GMT -5
Er.;.. what the Hell has alchemistx done to deserve a MINUS ONE in karma? Didn't almost everyone on this site agree that no one deserves less than zero? I'd like to know who took such issue with his twenty-nine posts that they felt he didn't even deserve 0 karma but regardless, I'm exalting him the second I have it recharged again. That's just COWARDICE, and it's beneath this site.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 13, 2007 11:18:19 GMT -5
Er.;.. what the Hell has alchemistx done to deserve a MINUS ONE in karma? Didn't almost everyone on this site agree that no one deserves less than zero? I'd like to know who took such issue with his twenty-nine posts that they felt he didn't even deserve 0 karma but regardless, I'm exalting him the second I have it recharged again. That's just COWARDICE, and it's beneath this site. I agree,Doom... I saw it too last night & was taken aback by it as well; I didn't know you could be minus anything...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 13, 2007 11:34:58 GMT -5
I did, having been that myself more than once. Anyway, it's retified now.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 13, 2007 13:13:36 GMT -5
back on post for a second. I've been thinking about what major league bad guys could work well enough together for this situation. I think with proper communication you could get Mandarin and Doom to head up something. They would also make a very formidible team.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 13, 2007 13:20:07 GMT -5
Doom's arrogance gets in the way of 90% of team-ups though. If it's a quick info exchange or whatever maybe, but prolonged contact jsut blows up, especially if Mandarin wantedc to be treated as anything other than subordinate.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 13, 2007 13:26:55 GMT -5
Doom and Mandarin are both long term planners. IF they got together, realized what they wanted to accomplish, pre-divided any gains, I think they could work as a cohesive team for a short term with almost mutual respect.
But IT would fall apart as well. It's just these are the only two I could see who are big enough to set aside that ego even for a few weeks.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 13, 2007 13:45:06 GMT -5
Doom's arrogance gets in the way of 90% of team-ups though. If it's a quick info exchange or whatever maybe, but prolonged contact jsut blows up, especially if Mandarin wantedc to be treated as anything other than subordinate. Which he would... I agree... It was precisely the Mandarin who I was basically thinking when I mentioned big baddies, and a team-up with Doom would be awesome & potentially quite devastating, but... and what a big BUT it is... Doom cannot absolutely allow even the merest appearance of equality with anyone on anything he endeavors to do... Frankly, that's the reason why I've been considering demoting him to 2nd place on my list of favorite villians and promoting Thanos to the 1st spot, because Doom's ego, pride & arrogance quite often get in the way of his achieving the goals he sets to accomplish... IMO, Thanos is a more effective villian because he understands better the natures of sentient beings in general & individuals in particular & he isn't nearly as prone ay underestimating his opponents... However... as written by some people, Doom can sometimes put aside those overwhelming feelings of entitlement of his (at least for a while...) when the goal at hand is enticing enough... I recall a quite effective teaming-up of his with Kang during the Infinity War, where he "played nice", well, for the most part, with the Conqueror... Then again, perhaps Kang is one of the few individuals who Doom could almost see as an equal...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 13, 2007 13:52:06 GMT -5
Actually, Doom and Kang is a brilliant team-up- I seem to recall there was even speculation that they were related or one and the same in the comics, but that may just be my hazy mind. They both have the same sense of honour and warrior's pride, and I could see that working out,
The big thing about Doom is that unlike most villains, he can achieve his goals on his own anyway, and to him most tema mates would just be a hindrance rather than a help.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 13, 2007 14:00:47 GMT -5
Yes, they were supposed to be related but, what with all the revelations & counterrevelations, retconns & revisions we've gotten through the years regarding Kang, it's anybody's guess (or perhaps only our acting archivist & custodian of knowledge, the Night Phantom... he hasn't been around lately, by the way, has he...?) if this still applies...
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Post by overlord on Apr 13, 2007 21:52:12 GMT -5
The big thing about Doom is that unlike most villains, he can achieve his goals on his own anyway, and to him most tema mates would just be a hindrance rather than a help. Not really, other villains make good cannon fodder, using them as pawns to throw the heroes off balance, while he takes care of more important things. Ever played Marvel: Ultimate Alliance? In that game Doom created his own version of the Masters of Evil, to throw the heroes off balance while he obtained godhood for himself and then ditched them when he got what he wanted. Doom has worked with other villains before, they make useful pawns. Even Doom using a bunch of super powered mercs in a plan against the heroes would interesting, Doom doesn't need other A-list villains to sell a crossover, just give him an army of super powered mercs that he uses as pawns in a greater scheme. Besides a lot of villains have no problem with being "pawns", a ton of Spider-man villains would do whatever Doom asked them for the right price and Doom doesn't have a lot of problems spending his nearly infinite wealth to get his way.
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