|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 16, 2007 16:17:48 GMT -5
I too liked it- I actually preferred it to 2- and felt it moved forward. As I said before, this is really feeling like an Avengers book again and I could easily see this tale, or a very similar one, pre Disassembled.
I join the w in my plea to try it, though I doubt many of you will admit to liking it even if you did, that may be my general cynicism.
And yes, Sentry does more in this issue than in his entire history. He ALMOST makes me like him.
Almost.
|
|
|
Post by Alchemist-X on May 16, 2007 18:31:45 GMT -5
This series has definately made me more of a fan of Black Widow overall. Especially issues 2&3. (Ultimates 13 also had some interesting Widow momments this week).
Tigra and Hanks date was kinda fun too, overall pretty enjoyable, and Mighty has definately taken top spot among current avengers books in my opinion.
The ending makes me wonder about the fate of Iron man, definately got to get the next issue.
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 16, 2007 21:53:54 GMT -5
Tigra and Hanks date was kinda fun too Actually, this was the one part of the book I didn't like. It had zero grounding in recent events. ~W~
|
|
|
Post by Alchemist-X on May 16, 2007 23:35:23 GMT -5
Tigra and Hanks date was kinda fun too Actually, this was the one part of the book I didn't like. It had zero grounding in recent events. ~W~ The only point that was touched on before was the finality of this divorce (Really only brought up in the last couple issues of mighty), the rest was out of left field, I just liked the way the date ended, right after Hank got through explaining how done they were., made me laugh.
|
|
|
Post by von Bek on May 18, 2007 9:30:33 GMT -5
OK, here´s the dialogue between Tigra and Hank Pym ( keep in mind that it´s exactly as it appears in the comic, I´m not making anything up or editing anything):
Pym: I´m... I´m really glad we did this. Tigra: You said that. Pym: I did? Tigra: Are you worried about your ex-wife? Pym: Jan? No. No. We´re done. Tigra: You sure? You´ve been done before. Pym: No, we´re done done. Long done. Very done. So done.
Even when trying to mock BENDIS! I couldn´t have come up with something that bad. After that great dialogue Shield (or whoever the soldiers are supposed to be) invade the room that the hot couple is in and find Pym in his underwear... Please make it stop...
|
|
|
Post by dlw66 on May 18, 2007 9:57:38 GMT -5
Please, please make it all go away!!!
I am so glad to be hanging onto my Avengers money each month.
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 18, 2007 16:37:10 GMT -5
Please, please make it all go away!!! That was the only scene that was bad, buddy. And that dialogue comes off worse without the pictures. It makes more sense with the corresponding images, as Tigra is all "I want you" and is making Pym studder and rattle on. You should take another look. Really. Give it some faith! ~W~
|
|
|
Post by dlw66 on May 18, 2007 21:17:00 GMT -5
You should take another look. Really. Give it some faith! ~W~ W, ol' boy, I never gave it the first look (other than the first Internet previews). I read the plot teasers in the Diamond solicitations and also look at the creator credits. I'll come back when I think it's "safe".
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 19, 2007 5:14:00 GMT -5
The funny thing is, most of the complaints extended to old NA are gone.
The only real problem I can see anyone having with MA without prejudging is Bendis' dialogue or decompression, which were basically minor factors in the mass NA hatred.
|
|
|
Post by redstatecap on May 19, 2007 12:56:05 GMT -5
Well, I think it's more accurate to say that the most obvious and easily-addressed problems from NA are being addressed in Mighty. Namely, Bendis is making an effort to throw in some action. That's true. He's also making an effort to develop the inter-personal relationships on the team, although not with much subtlety or interest as far as I'm concerned. It's looking like a bad soap-opera in the making. On the other hand, the factors which Bendis cannot easily change, like his idiotic dialogue, puzzling plot developments, and poor characterization/mis-characterization are no different in Mighty than in New. Even if I weren't on a total Marvel boycott, Mighty hasn't changed enough from New where it counts to get my business.
RSC
|
|
|
Post by von Bek on May 19, 2007 13:58:39 GMT -5
That was the only scene that was bad, buddy.And that dialogue comes off worse without the pictures. The 'pictures' are just the T&A from Cho that we´re supposed to expect, and made the dialogue even worse. And there are plenty of other bad scenes in the book.
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 19, 2007 17:23:20 GMT -5
[sigh]
Nevermind . . .
~W~
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 19, 2007 17:29:51 GMT -5
That was the only scene that was bad, buddy.And that dialogue comes off worse without the pictures. The 'pictures' are just the T&A from Cho that we´re supposed to expect, and made the dialogue even worse. And there are plenty of other bad scenes in the book. And what other scenes would that be? ~W~
|
|
|
Post by Alchemist-X on May 19, 2007 17:33:49 GMT -5
I understand, finally a book you feel in a lot of ways you can start to enjoy as a return to a more classical Avengers style, but since everyone here has a hate on for a certain writer, only maybe a handful of people are gonna ever give this book a try.
|
|
|
Post by uberwolf on May 19, 2007 18:27:37 GMT -5
If you enjoy the book, enjoy it! Not everyone is going to like it, that's a fact of life. You get upset because there are people that don't agree with you? Haven't seen any MA issues yet so I can't comment on the books themselves. Love your Marvel, don't get mad because some of us are disillusioned with them.
|
|
|
Post by balok on May 19, 2007 20:30:30 GMT -5
...since everyone here has a hate on for a certain writer... Be fair. In most cases, that writer trained us to hate his work. It wasn't part of our DNA. If one is disappointed with a particular creator often enough, eventually one learns to disregard that creator's work sight unseen. That's rational; it's the same way we learn not to touch the stove burner or tease a strange dog!
|
|
|
Post by Alchemist-X on May 20, 2007 15:35:19 GMT -5
...since everyone here has a hate on for a certain writer... Be fair. In most cases, that writer trained us to hate his work. It wasn't part of our DNA. If one is disappointed with a particular creator often enough, eventually one learns to disregard that creator's work sight unseen. That's rational; it's the same way we learn not to touch the stove burner or tease a strange dog! Your quite correct actually, if you haven't liked someones work on a particular topic for 30 issues, it probably won't change. The big difference I think between MA and NA obviously isn't the writer, but the story being told. MA is definately an atempt at a more classic Avengers (Most of the Roster, classic, if sex changed villian, more action and a slightly faster pace). But like I said, If you really hate Bendis's work, all that really won't matter. The question everyone should ask is did they hate the New Avengers story, or did they just hate the way it was being told. If you just hated the former, give MA a chance, but if you hate the latter it probably isn't for you.
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 20, 2007 15:58:26 GMT -5
Well, I think it's more accurate to say that the most obvious and easily-addressed problems from NA are being addressed in Mighty. Namely, Bendis is making an effort to throw in some action. That's true. He's also making an effort to develop the inter-personal relationships on the team, although not with much subtlety or interest as far as I'm concerned. It's looking like a bad soap-opera in the making. On the other hand, the factors which Bendis cannot easily change, like his idiotic dialogue, puzzling plot developments, and poor characterization/mis-characterization are no different in Mighty than in New. Even if I weren't on a total Marvel boycott, Mighty hasn't changed enough from New where it counts to get my business. RSC If you're not reading it, how do you know this? Hmmm . . . I just dropped two Karma points simply by saying "Nevermind" and asking what other scenes were bad. ~W~
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 20, 2007 15:59:58 GMT -5
Well, I think it's more accurate to say that the most obvious and easily-addressed problems from NA are being addressed in Mighty. Namely, Bendis is making an effort to throw in some action. That's true. He's also making an effort to develop the inter-personal relationships on the team, although not with much subtlety or interest as far as I'm concerned. It's looking like a bad soap-opera in the making. On the other hand, the factors which Bendis cannot easily change, like his idiotic dialogue, puzzling plot developments, and poor characterization/mis-characterization are no different in Mighty than in New. Even if I weren't on a total Marvel boycott, Mighty hasn't changed enough from New where it counts to get my business. RSC While that may be true of you personally, these were STILL not the primary complaints. The biggest complaint was always without doubt the characters on the team, the second biggest was as you say a lack of action. I might also ask you what mischaracterization there has been besides some questionable Tony stuff in 1? Was it when Black Widow took command of the situation on the Helicarrier? OR when Wonder Man joined the Avengers rather than be an actor as an avenger?
|
|
|
Post by Alchemist-X on May 20, 2007 18:19:28 GMT -5
Well, I think it's more accurate to say that the most obvious and easily-addressed problems from NA are being addressed in Mighty. Namely, Bendis is making an effort to throw in some action. That's true. He's also making an effort to develop the inter-personal relationships on the team, although not with much subtlety or interest as far as I'm concerned. It's looking like a bad soap-opera in the making. On the other hand, the factors which Bendis cannot easily change, like his idiotic dialogue, puzzling plot developments, and poor characterization/mis-characterization are no different in Mighty than in New. Even if I weren't on a total Marvel boycott, Mighty hasn't changed enough from New where it counts to get my business. RSC If you're not reading it, how do you know this? Hmmm . . . I just dropped two Karma points simply by saying "Nevermind" and asking what other scenes were bad. ~W~ I just gave ya a second exhalt to fix that, as it seems somewhat unfair.
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 20, 2007 22:57:12 GMT -5
I just gave ya a second exhalt to fix that, as it seems somewhat unfair. Many thanks, friend! And Doc, an exhalt to you for calling it. May I also submit to your arguements that three other complaints against "New Avengers" that have been rectified (for the most part). There were that the team took too long to build; there were no good villians; and that there were plenty of continunity mistakes. The first was a flaw handled in the first issue. The team was assembled very quickly. The villian is Ultron, though it's not clear of the plan just yet. As far as continunity mistakes, there hasn't really been the chance to make any. Although with complex nature of Ultron's character and history, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw one or two. I've said it before - "Mighty Avengers" is written along more super-hero lines than "New Avengers." Is it the greatest Avengers book ever? No. But is it a decent comic? Yes. And Bendis "trained" me before he started "New Avengers" that he was a good writer. Hence why I put my faith in him that he would do a good job here. He's fumbled and dropped the ball, but he's making an effort to make it a better pair of books. ~W~
|
|
|
Post by redstatecap on May 20, 2007 23:55:57 GMT -5
If you're not reading it, how do you know this? Because I browsed it at the shop. Not me, and it's provable. RSC
|
|
|
Post by redstatecap on May 21, 2007 0:28:45 GMT -5
While that may be true of you personally, these were STILL not the primary complaints. The biggest complaint was always without doubt the characters on the team, the second biggest was as you say a lack of action. I can't help what anyone else thinks. My evaluation of his Avengers work has always been consistent, and the roster was never a huge problem for me outside Wolverine. It's what he's done, or rather hasn't done with the characters he himself picked. Further adventures with Nazi Tony in issue #1. Girltron is a bad mauling of that character's motivations. Jan, who is written as a bimbo in #1 and as perceptive in #3. Carol, tapped to be the team leader but effectively Tony's b*tch, written as indecisive and ineffective. Ares, for whom there is no explicable reason to be on this team. The Hank/Tigra thing, and several other clumsy hints of love plots in just the first 3 issues that all read like they were written by and for 8th-graders. That's enough for me in three issues. RSC
|
|
|
Post by redstatecap on May 21, 2007 0:52:57 GMT -5
May I also submit to your arguements that three other complaints against "New Avengers" that have been rectified (for the most part). There were that the team took too long to build; Granted, however the choice of Ares is still foolish in the extreme. The roster selection which occupied the majority of #1 was also done in Bendis' characteristically idiotic cutesy-banter style, which I simply cannot stand. I don't count Girltron as a good villain, merely a stupid mangling of a good villain. Since when can't Simon fly? Since when did Ares become other than a career villain until decreed an Avenger by Bendis? Wow, I don't think I've ever seen you admit before that he has "fumbled and dropped the ball" on anything. Can you recap for me exactly what these fumbles were? Is there some change on Mighty? Yes there is. Is there enough change, and change in the right places? No there isn't, for me. Is there change on New? I think I can honestly say that, outside of a roster shakeup, there is zero change in the style of New over his previous issues. If anything New is worse than ever, with the same plot and dialogue weaknesses, poor art, and a much-inferior roster now. RSC
|
|
|
Post by thew40 on May 21, 2007 8:44:54 GMT -5
Since when can't Simon fly? He does fly. The Ares mini-series. And if you actually read MA, you'd understand why. The Sentry arch was quite terrible; Avengers Disassembled was bad; The Collective was hit and miss. Bendis is at his best when he handles the whole "conspiracy" subplot - as evidenced with Secret War, Breakout, Secrets and Lies, and the current arch (bad art aside). However, I did enjoy House of M (more of an X-Men story, though). I really don't understand your Nazi Tony arguement for issue # 1. What did he do that was villianious in that issue? Pick the team? Build a new Helicarrier in his color scheme? ~W~
|
|
|
Post by von Bek on May 21, 2007 10:05:58 GMT -5
The 'pictures' are just the T&A from Cho that we´re supposed to expect, and made the dialogue even worse. And there are plenty of other bad scenes in the book. And what other scenes would that be? ~W~ The Jan-Girltron scenes, BW all of a sudden 'discovering' that she´s a level 10 or such nonsense. For now these two come to mind...
|
|
|
Post by balok on May 21, 2007 14:52:41 GMT -5
I have now read issuye #3, and to me the book remains at about the 4/10 or maybe 5/10 level. Girltron simply doesn't interest me as a villain - she projects no real menace, and anything related to Ultron should be menacing.
I haven't seen a romantic scene as poorly dialogued as Hank/Tigra since Anakin Skywalker/Padme in "Attack of the Clones." It just didn't work at all for me.
The team continues to flounder, projecting an impression that it has no idea what to do. They're lucky Ultron also seems to be a victim of Captain Fatigue and his Slowdown Ray, or they'd all be dead.
Pacing: Poor. Dialogue: Poor to Acceptable Plot: I'll be dead of old age before it unfolds, so I'll never know. Use of Thought Balloons: Please stop. I'll beg if I must. Art: Still very nice, if overly reliant on cheesecake shots.
I'll browse the next issue in the store first; if it isn't markedly better, I'm done.
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 21, 2007 16:53:37 GMT -5
I haven't seen a romantic scene as poorly dialogued as Hank/Tigra since Anakin Skywalker/Padme in "Attack of the Clones." It just didn't work at all for me. Come now, come now. Tigra could have been a pokémon and said nothing but her own NAME and it would have been better than "I don't like sand!" Clearly you were stricken blind every time Black Widow walked onto the page. And you also seem to have "forgotten" that you had been really hoping for Sentry to do something and he actually did.
|
|
|
Post by balok on May 21, 2007 18:01:17 GMT -5
Tigra could have been a pokémon and said nothing but her own NAME and it would have been better than "I don't like sand!" Alright, point conceded - but that scene made me double check the credits to see if Lucas was a co-writer. Clearly you were stricken blind every time Black Widow walked onto the page. Her scenes were the highlight of the book for me, and they're the reason I'll give the next issue a look. They're how the book got to 5/10. Collectively, the team just seems rudderless most of the time. And the thought balloons have got to go. And you also seem to have "forgotten" that you had been really hoping for Sentry to do something and he actually did. This, for me, was quite anti-climactic. Sure, there was that nice panel of the building windows exploding (I wonder how many folks died in that building?), but there were too many thumbnail sized insets. That encounter also ties into Bendis' inability to make me feel that Girltron is a real menace, as Kurt Busiek did during his run.
|
|
|
Post by Alchemist-X on May 21, 2007 18:06:55 GMT -5
Girl-tron gets cool points for trying to dropping the Helicarrier on Sentry
Doom gets an Exhalt for the Pokemon/I don't like sand crack
|
|