Why were the New Warriors blamed for Stamford?

[overlord]

Why were the New Warriors blamed for Stamford? Sure they were stupid and reckless, but Nitro is an evil, psychopathic old man and was one who actually committed the crime. When a crime is committed, doesn't responsibility lie with the criminal that committed it? Who should really be blamed, the stupid kids (New warriors) or the evil psychopathic old man (Nitro)?

[balok]

Because if they blamed the criminal who actually committed the crime, the entire justification for the SHRA and the Civil War disappears, and Marvel can't make a fortune selling "event" books.

That's the real answer. If you want an in universe answer, welll... People tend to spread blame around. Look at how, when some gets shot, people want to sue the shooter, the gun maker, sometimes even the luckless guy the perp stole the gun from. The New Warriors, having a television show, were very high profile. Nitro, on the other hand, is B-list at best. Very dangerous B-list, but still, B-list. And you know what they say about the nail that sticks up the farthest.

[overlord]

balok said:

Because if they blamed the criminal who actually committed the crime, the entire justification for the SHRA and the Civil War disappears, and Marvel can't make a fortune selling "event" books.

That's the real answer. If you want an in universe answer, welll... People tend to spread blame around. Look at how, when some gets shot, people want to sue the shooter, the gun maker, sometimes even the luckless guy the perp stole the gun from. The New Warriors, having a television show, were very high profile. Nitro, on the other hand, is B-list at best. Very dangerous B-list, but still, B-list. And you know what they say about the nail that sticks up the farthest.

The problem is almost no one was blaming Nitro for Stamford. Why weren't crowds burning Nitro in effigy? Why did the government set up a giant task force to enforce the SHRA, but Nitro's capture only warrants a few SHIELD agents and Wolverine? Seems like everyone there has screwed up priorities. If the cops botched a raid and a criminal killed a bunch of hostages in response, wouldn't the criminal actually get most of the blame?

[balok]

overlord said:

The problem is almost no one was blaming Nitro for Stamford. Why weren't crowds burning Nitro in effigy?

The point I was trying to make is, outside of those who have fought him, few people even know Nitro exists. Do you know every criminal the FBI pursues? No - but you probably know a few of their highest profile targets. And you probably know who John Walsh is - because he's got a television show.

overlord said:

Why did the government set up a giant task force to enforce the SHRA, but Nitro's capture only warrants a few SHIELD agents and Wolverine? Seems like everyone there has screwed up priorities.

Poor writing and malignant editorial guidance would be my answers. But there are two folks (that I know of) on this board who love the way Marvel has gone in recent years and would give you a different answer.

overlord said:

If the cops botched a raid and a criminal killed a bunch of hostages in response, wouldn't the criminal actually get most of the blame?

You'd think that, but it's surprising how often the cops catch the blame in that situation. In part this is because they're expected to discharge their duties in a way that prevents harm to others, and when others get harmed, it's assumed the cops failed somehow, whether or not this is actually what happened.

Ninety percent of the Marvel Universe supported the SHRA. The court of public opinion is often wrong about what it wants - sometimes disastrously so.

[Doctor Doom]

The problem is, the New Warriors were complete morons. They jumped in without a plan, without any way of limiting casualties, without even a thought for what might happen if things got out of hand. And then you have amateur mistakes like shoving a man who can *EXPLODE* into a bus *FULL. OF. GASOLINE* beside a *CROWDED PLAYGROUND*. Even if he hadn't been ramped up on MGH he would have caused devastation with an explosion. It was idiot hour.

Worse still, their motivesd were pathetic and petty. They weren't thinking about saving lives, the only thing they cared about was their ratings. They provoked a combat situation in a target rich environment (and, one can argue, made things even WORSE after that) without a real plan, for the sake of making money.

Nitro was hunted down, and of course he was a priority. But he was only part of the problem. It was about superhumans in general, and really with heroes like the New Warriors, who needs villains?

[overlord]

docdoom said:

Nitro was hunted down, and of course he was a priority. But he was only part of the problem. It was about superhumans in general, and really with heroes like the New Warriors, who needs villains?

That's attitude that has reduced villains of Marvel into a laughing stock, "we don't need villain when heroes are dumb enough to attack each other".

But the fact is one a crime is committed, the criminal bears responsibility for the crime. The NWs are at best guilty of criminal negligence, while Nitro was guilty of mass murder. Which is worse? Why are there no Nitro effigies being burned by the crowds? If Nitro was a priority why did then why did only Wolverine and some SHIELD agents go and try to catch him, while entire task force was created to enforce the SHRA?

If the government had done its job and captured Nitro, what, should have been allowed to sue the NWs for "mental distress"?

[Nutcase65]

This is one of the things about CW that I felt really reflected modern day America.

Whenever something bad happens, we want someone to blame. If it's someone who has some degree of stature, that's just more blood in the water.

After we have that person to blame, in this case the NW, we are willing to believe anything that the press releases to us.

The press is so hungry to feed the masses whatever they want that initially they will release any tidbit the government feeds them.

The governm,ent in turn feeds the press what it wants to in order to further whatever agenda they have brewing at the moment. (registration, in this case)

I think the writers were trying to reflect that a little bit.

[balok]

docdoom said:

The problem is, the New Warriors were complete morons. They jumped in without a plan, without any way of limiting casualties, without even a thought for what might happen if things got out of hand. And then you have amateur mistakes like shoving a man who can *EXPLODE* into a bus *FULL. OF. GASOLINE* beside a *CROWDED PLAYGROUND*. Even if he hadn't been ramped up on MGH he would have caused devastation with an explosion. It was idiot hour.

Worse still, their motivesd were pathetic and petty. They weren't thinking about saving lives, the only thing they cared about was their ratings. They provoked a combat situation in a target rich environment (and, one can argue, made things even WORSE after that) without a real plan, for the sake of making money.

Nitro was hunted down, and of course he was a priority. But he was only part of the problem. It was about superhumans in general, and really with heroes like the New Warriors, who needs villains?

You make some valid points in your first couple of paragraphs, and one could certainly make the case that the New Warriors are guilty of depraved indifference (that's a legal term that means, basically, you take actions without regard for baneful consequences a reasonable and prudent person could anticipate in like and similar circumstances).

But when you generalize to superhumans in general, that's where you lose me. All the Stamford incident can say is that the *New Warriors* acted irresponsibly. It makes no comment at all about heroes such as Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, all of whom act responsibly. In fact, these characters' long histories of responsible behavior and looking out for innocent bystanders argue that the New Warriors were an exception and not the rule in superheroic behavior.

I think Marvel realized this and that's partly why they devised the plot point of predictive sociological mathematics (really, they stole Asimov's psychohistory) and assigned that to Reed Richards (as the only heroic character bright enough to do it that's also likely to do it). Just one of the plot weaknesses of Civil War, in my view.

[uberwolf]

I also didn't like the way they brought the Thinker in to double check Reed's equations. The Thinker, long standing enemy of the FF, conceited in his own intelligence and he just starts fawning over how brilliant Reed is. Not in character at all if you ask me. He might have been thinking that.. but I can't see him saying it out loud. Of course not using thought bubbles anymore.....

[balok]

uberwolf said:

I also didn't like the way they brought the Thinker in to double check Reed's equations. The Thinker, long standing enemy of the FF, conceited in his own intelligence and he just starts fawning over how brilliant Reed is. Not in character at all if you ask me. He might have been thinking that.. but I can't see him saying it out loud. Of course not using thought bubbles anymore.....

Yeah, but given that the entire scene was constructed as a crowbar to lever Reed onto the pro-registration side, one can understand that characterization sat second fiddle.

Of course, the Thinker might already have been pondering the many ways in which he'll be able to exploit a world in which heroes battle heroes...

[Shiryu]

To answer the original question, I suppose the school of thought was "if the Warriors hadn't attacked, Nitro wouldn't have exploded".

Despite being essentially true, this is obviously biased. It's like when someone dies in hostage situations, and people blame the police for opening fire rather than the criminals for taking hostages in the first place.

Still it was a sad end of the Warriors, who had done their fair share of good in the past

[bendisbites]

But, when the New Warriors attacked, Nitro wasn't near a school. During the course of the battle, he ended up at a school, which could happen in any battle in a populated area.
And just because they had cameras and were in a civilian neighborhood so what? When the Avengers took on Korvac they went to a suburban house in full force, like thirty Avengers. Nobody even bothered to think of a plan to lure the threat from the neighborhood or wait or evacuate the neighborhood just in case.
And I guarantee I can point out a million other times when this sort of thing happened--it's just that marvel decided this time it would go bad.
Plus the whole thing completely ignores how aware and cautious New Warriors like Namorita were about civilians and the danger to them in the book's original run.
The new characters I can't really gauge, and Speedball was mostly comic relief but Namorita, Marvel Boy and Firestar among others, cared.

[balok]

The interesting thing about the whole SHRA has been that some heroes, like Spider-Man, who routinely consider the people around them, have wound up on the losing side (notice that I do not say the wrong side).

Ultimately, Marvel wanted to kill a lot of people to provide a powerful incentive for ordinary folks to be afraid of superfolks. Nevermind that people must have died in these brawls before this. Even Marvel knew that their readers knew people had died before Stamford - that's why they beat us over the head with the school age victims. Hell, the public face of the registration act was the mother of one of these school age victims.

The other thing Marvel wanted was a group of heroes to die along with the victims. This would drive home how bad the event was, and at the same time eliminate any plot complications that might arise from the group actually defending its actions.

Knowing what it needed, all it had to do was search around for a group of entirely or mostly expendable characters, and it found that group in the New Warriors. That they made a reality television series was probably a fortuitous plot development that made explaining their presence in Stamford easy.

The emerging world of Marvel strongly suggests that the dollar is all that matters to them, and they will sacrifice anything for it, including characters and characterization.

And that, really, is why the New Warriors were blamed for Stamford.

[goldenfist]

Even Nova can't belive they were blamed for what happened
in Stamford.