daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Mar 26, 2007 6:03:55 GMT -5
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Post by balok on Mar 26, 2007 9:27:45 GMT -5
Beautiful! Especially what should have been Cap's reply to Sally Floyd.
Reading things like this give me a little hope that there are some folks who a actually still understand real American ideals.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 26, 2007 10:27:49 GMT -5
Old news.
Oh, and I agree Cap abandoned all his principles. I just think he did it 6 issues earlier into CW.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 26, 2007 11:41:31 GMT -5
It may be old news, Doom, but the Cap some of us know would have INDEED, answered this or something very similar to this, minus the curse words & the cynicism, of course....
In fact, I find irony on your dismissing this as old news since you're more right than even you suspect: it IS old news for us that THIS is a Cap we can recognize....
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 26, 2007 14:59:47 GMT -5
Ho-diddly-hey-ho ua2.  I'm not denying he would react like that, I've despised Frontline almost all the way through. It's just I really do think it's difficult for Cap to say anything without coming off as a hypocrite these days. (Brubaker cured the odds of that happening any time soon.) I mean, I really think CW could be subtitled "The Downfall of Captain America", and it's a downfall not of writing standards or charcterisation but of the character, of him blindly following the path of destruction. Nowhere is it more clearly evidenced than The Confession, where he shouts at Tony Stark "Who made YOU our moral compass?" The bitter truth being of course that that';s just hypocrisy in the extreme. CAPTAIN AMERICA cannot complain about people vieiwing themselves as moral compasses. |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 26, 2007 16:21:11 GMT -5
But Doom I think there is a difference. Captain America never told people they had to follow what he believed. He didn't FORCE people to follow his compass. He didn't place himself in the position of a moral compass. His actions were WHY people looked to him as a compass.
IM took it upon himself to enforce his compass. He repeatedly states that He saw this coming and HE tried to direct situations HE did this and HE did that. So there is a difference there.
and that statement about that being old news,... dude, that's a little beneath you. Whenever someone brings something to this forum it doesn't have to be relevant to you, it's just something they want to share. You can agree or disagree, but dismissing their desire to contribute isn't really your style.
and it was new to me, guess I'm just an old fogie behind the times.
Just to be safe I'm gonna keep away from the walls of my house for a while ;D
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 26, 2007 17:21:51 GMT -5
Anybody saw the fiend who just threw me through a wall...?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 26, 2007 19:03:57 GMT -5
It wasn't agression though, he just wanted to talk ;D
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 27, 2007 10:33:10 GMT -5
Nutcase, there's another difference you forget. If the heroes had all used Cap as their moral compass, the entire marvel universe would be destroyed in the worst case scenario or all heroes would be rounded up and imprisoned for life in the best base scenario. ...So personally I'll stick with Iron Man  ...And I still firmly believe that Spidey started the fight in civil war #5! |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 27, 2007 15:46:36 GMT -5
Nutcase, there's another difference you forget. If the heroes had all used Cap as their moral compass, the entire marvel universe would be destroyed in the worst case scenario or all heroes would be rounded up and imprisoned for life in the best base scenario. To quote ghandi "WHA?!?!?!?!?" You're gonna have to be clearer than that. If ALL the heroes had used caps moral compass, Stamford wouldn't have happened. If all heroes had to use Cap as a personal compass, there would be almost no selfishly motivated actions by heroes and no scary heroes running around vigilante style. The public would not have much fear of all the heroes if they were like Cap. So the act never would've come into play. Dont get me wrong I like diversity in my heroes. If everyone WERE like cap comics would bore the hades out of me. Wanna talk about a hero that doesn't inspire trust. I love him too, but Iron Man is as untrustworthy as they get. 1. People don't trust him. "I am Iron Man, I'm not Iron Man, I am Iron Man, I'm not Iron Man" He's come back and forth so many times it's like a soap apera star coming back from the dead. The President asked him to step down from his job, even though he was being controlled by the Scarlet Witch (IM that is). Shield has a variety of anti Iron Man devices, just in case. His own best friends have been highly dubious of his intentions and motivations in the past. 2. Other heroes don't trust him. Again with the Iron Man/not Iron Man thing. The other heroes to a large degree acknowledge his belief that the ends justify the means. 3. He admits to being untrustworthy. He talks about the things he's done 'for the greater good'. He admits to lying down with scum. Only allowing for your way to be the only way is not the equivalent of having a moral compass. I am not saying that Cap didn't slip up and do some unpleasant things and make some mistakes during the war but it comes down to this. Who would I rely on if he told me he would always look out for me no matter what? Gotta be Cap. If he gives his word, he stands by it, no matter what. Tony would only keep his word until HE decided he shouldn't keep it any more. A compass only points one way, it doesn't change from north to south-east because it thinks that's the way you should go. Oh yeah,... ninjas suck |
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Post by balok on Mar 27, 2007 17:22:36 GMT -5
And if Sally Floyd and Ben Urich had done their job, Iron Man would be heading down the road toward a little town called Hatedbyeveryone!  |
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 27, 2007 19:36:09 GMT -5
I just HAD to exalt you for your post, nutcase65...
I wish more nutcases out there were like you!
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 27, 2007 19:38:08 GMT -5
Any relation to Squirrel Girl...?
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 29, 2007 16:56:52 GMT -5
I enjoyed Cap’s answer to Sally Floyd, but it would have been more entertaining if it had been worded in better accord with his traditional characterization. Even in thought balloons, Cap would not use foul language, call a person “retarded” unless he truly meant it in the clinical sense, etc.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 29, 2007 17:04:49 GMT -5
Any relation to Squirrel Girl...? nonono, Just like deadpool, Squirrel Girl is a mortal enemy. She bites, really. |
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Post by balok on Mar 29, 2007 17:07:37 GMT -5
I enjoyed Cap’s answer to Sally Floyd, but it would have been more entertaining if it had been worded in better accord with his traditional characterization. Even in thought balloons, Cap would not use foul language, call a person “retarded” unless he truly meant it in the clinical sense, etc. The details of the speech needed work, written as they were in colloquial modern English. But the sense of it was brilliant. Even clinicians no longer use the term "retarded" any longer. They prefer "developmentally impaired" or a similar euphemism. Cap should instead have suggested that Floyd's education in basic Civics was shockingly limited, which would be more accurate. |
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