Civil War- The Initiative

[Doctor Doom]

The post war Marvel Universe begins here! The war is over!! Let the healing begin!! This all-new special written by Brian Bendis, especially for modern legend Marc Silvestri, debuts the all new IRON MAN, OMEGA FLIGHT, MIGHTY AVENGERS, NEW AVENGERS and with a special chapter written by Warren Ellis...THUNDERBOLTS! Each chapter is an important all-new prologue for each of these huge new series and sets up the radically altered landscape that makes up the post-Civil War Marvel Universe!

And before anyone (glares pointedly; you know who you are) tried to say this confirms the ludricous theory of Bendis controlling all, I want to point out that

A: He was a logical choice as he wrote the main lead-in title and
B: This is just CONFIRMING what we already knew. Bendis does NOT have sole input- or indeed, I'd guess, ANY input besides what happens to the Avengers for this title. He writes the piece, the ideas belong to others.

Anyway, thoughts? Anyone else notice it doesn't mention the FF in the radically changed list? Opinions- beyond that it must suck because it's written by Bendis?

[Doctor Bong]

Nope, It's business as usual at the corner of Down with Bendis St. & Crapola Ave., I'm afraid, with the same stubborn, undying ol' opinions...
By the way, Doom, and this is very respectfully submited (I MEAN IT, about the respect part, I'm NOT being facetious here!), you're delusional!!!

[Doctor Doom]

Don't worry, ua2. I know that if you were to call me a moronic imbecile with idiotic tendencies it would be done with utmost respect. It's just the way you are

I'm not delusional. Everyone ELSE on this site minus the W is

[Engage]

It makes sense for Bendis to write this. Those are pretty much books that he's going to be writing. Its going to be a "Brave New World" sort of thing, so at least it will match with the actual book. And for the Thunderbolts, the chapter will reflect that book. This is a marketing book and Bendis' name will help it sell.

What I don't get is this: "especially for modern legend Marc Silvestri". What does that mean?

[Doctor Bong]

But Doom, I didn't! One thing I have to (grudginly) admit is that I respect your style of debating... I sincerely think it's amicable, sedated & classy, and an example for us all to follow...
Now, having said that, I STILL think you've crossed the line into delutional land when it comes to defending Bendis; just IMO...

[balok]

"modern legend"

WTF?

Clearly, Marvel has noticed that the Bendis name on a book makes that book sell well. How could they not? What amazes me is that people rave about him. I can understand liking him, because tastes differ, and he has done some good work (I liked Alias), but his work on Avengers has ranged from adequate down to garbage. Nothing he has done on that book is rave-worthy. And yet, the man sells books.

It might be that what passes for quality in the modern comic book just isn't what I was brought up on. I can't think of any other explanation.

[redstatecap]

docdoom said:

And before anyone (glares pointedly; you know who you are) tried to say this confirms the ludricous theory of Bendis controlling all...

You are attempting to use a strawman argument. You know perfectly well that I have never contended that "Bendis controls all." I've stated my opinion in black and white: Bendis doesn't control everything at Marvel -- but has much more stroke than he deserves or has the talent to back up. Period.

I want to point out that A: He was a logical choice as he wrote the main lead-in title and
B: This is just CONFIRMING what we already knew. Bendis does NOT have sole input- or indeed, I'd guess, ANY input besides what happens to the Avengers for this title. He writes the piece, the ideas belong to others.

I fail to see how this very general solicit either confirms or denies anything.
For argument's sake let's say that this issue really is some kind of "plot by committe" one-shot with Bendis just supplying the dialogue and getting the writing credit. But using this (highly questionable) "fact" to say: "See! Bendis doesn't have undue influence!" is an unsupportable stretch of this example. Even if that is the case, all it means is that in this issue, Bendis did not have carte blanche to set directions for other people's books.
That said, you have no idea whether or not this is really written by Bendis or is a "plot by committee." Furthermore, you have no idea what the plot itself is. Try this again when you have actually read the comic.

Anyway, thoughts? Anyone else notice it doesn't mention the FF in the radically changed list? Opinions- beyond that it must suck because it's written by Bendis?

Given Bendis' track record, the likelihood is that it sucks. But, as we say down here in the South, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
Out of all the NA issues I bought (1-15) or browsed (16-23) the only issue I can honestly say was a good professional effort was the NA Annual. The Avengers solved their own problem. A plot thread was resolved -- GASP! There was some good action. I was curious to see if he could repeat that effort, but alas, that seemed to have been one of those "blind squirrel finding the acorn" moments.

Take my advice:
A)Do a better job of picking your examples. Otherwise you will get cut off at the knees.
B)Think twice about calling someone out when you are standing on very shaky ground.

RSC

[Doctor Doom]

redstatecap said:

docdoom said:

And before anyone (glares pointedly; you know who you are) tried to say this confirms the ludricous theory of Bendis controlling all...

You are attempting to use a strawman argument. You know perfectly well that I have never contended that "Bendis controls all." I've stated my opinion in black and white: Bendis doesn't control everything at Marvel -- but has much more stroke than he deserves or has the talent to back up. Period.

Perhaps it is fortune then that I was not referring to you.

For argument's sake let's say that this issue really is some kind of "plot by committe" one-shot with Bendis just supplying the dialogue and getting the writing credit. But using this (highly questionable) "fact" to say: "See! Bendis doesn't have undue influence!" is an unsupportable stretch of this example. Even if that is the case, all it means is that in this issue, Bendis did not have carte blanche to set directions for other people's books.
That said, you have no idea whether or not this is really written by Bendis or is a "plot by committee." Furthermore, you have no idea what the plot itself is. Try this again when you have actually read the comic.

? Seems a bit of an overreaction. I wasn't trying to use it to prove he DOESN'T control all, I was forestalling anyone else aruging that it proved he DID.

Given Bendis' track record, the likelihood is that it sucks. But, as we say down here in the South, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.

In your opinion, of course.

Take my advice:
A)Do a better job of picking your examples. Otherwise you will get cut off at the knees.

I didn't pick an example, Iforestalled the opposition using it.

B)Think twice about calling someone out when you are standing on very shaky ground.

I wasn't calling you out, I was calling bobc out and as far as I'm concerned my ground is rock solid.

But Doom, I didn't!

Nor did I mean to infer you did. I merely pointed out that I've seen enough of you to know you haven't the heart to really genuinely go all-out insults on someone without respect;)

One thing I have to (grudginly) admit is that I respect your style of debating... I sincerely think it's amicable, sedated & classy, and an example for us all to follow...

Heheheh, thank you very much. Not bad for a youngling, eh?


...Waitaminute, what 'style' is this!? Actually arguing back?

Now, having said that, I STILL think you've crossed the line into delutional land when it comes to defending Bendis; just IMO...

NEVER! EVERYONE ELSE IS IN DELUSIONAL LAND! I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO IS SANE!

[Doctor Bong]

What I really meant to say is, although quite often you seem to go out of your way to argue against the general concensus on this site, you manage to be contrary yet at the same time genial & a gentleman.
One of the reasons I expressed the opinion that (regarding Bendis) you're delusional is all that doggone forestalling other people's arguments, which kinda comes across as (charmingly) paranoid.

[Doctor Bong]

I mean, this isn't chess (and your not playing against the accursed Richards...) there's no need to anticipate your opponent's every move. That is, unless doing it really warms the cockles of your heart.

[Doctor Doom]

ua2 said:

What I really meant to say is, although quite often you seem to go out of your way to argue against the general concensus on this site, you manage to be contrary yet at the same time genial & a gentleman.

I will freely admit to being a huge devil's advocate, who will argue for the sake of arguing and enjoy every moment of it, yet on this site I geneerally do believe that which I espouse. Perhaps to a lesser degree than it SEEMS And thank you very much for the gentlemanly comment. Doom is a gentleman, of course- it would not do to foresake honour, for without honour what is there to seperate us from a bunch of particularly obsessed dogs?

One of the reasons I expressed the opinion that (regarding Bendis) you're delusional is all that doggone forestalling other people's arguments, which kinda comes across as (charmingly) paranoid.

Well I freely admit to being paranoid, charmingly or not

And to be honest, I play my arguments as though they WERE a game of chess, which perhaps would go some way to explaining that particular point.

[Engage]

Here's another question I have about this: How much are we going to guess this will cost. I got roped into Choosing Sides because of Omega Flight, but there's no way a book like this should be full price. I think the Distinguished Competition (where would we be without that?) got it right with Brave New World's lowered price. Who says this isn't the Mighty Marvel Age of Marketing Mark-Up?

...sorry...

[Doctor Bong]

Don't get the Night Phantom started, engage...

[The Night Phantom]

engage said:

Who says this isn't the Might Marvel Age of Marketing Mark-Up?

...sorry...

No need to be sorry! Who says this isn’t the Excellent Marvel Age of Excusably Alliterative Editorial Allusion?! Excelsior!!

[Engage]

See? This is why it's always worth it to get Night Phantom going.

Awesome.

[redstatecap]

docdoom said:

Perhaps it is fortune then that I was not referring to you.

Hard to believe given that almost the entire conversation in question was between the two of us.

? Seems a bit of an overreaction. I wasn't trying to use it to prove he DOESN'T control all, I was forestalling anyone else aruging that it proved he DID.

There are two false assumptions there. First, you had no indication that anyone was even considering doing that. Second, you are simply mistaken in thinking that this solicit can be used to prove anything one way or the other. Heck, looking at the solicit right now, I fail to see how I could even attempt to use it to "prove" my side.

In your opinion, of course.

And in the opinions of a lot of other people who want him off the title.

I didn't pick an example, Iforestalled the opposition using it.

Using it for what??? There is no information there that pertains to the discussion at hand!

I wasn't calling you out, I was calling bobc out and as far as I'm concerned my ground is rock solid.

How can your position be "rock solid" where there is -- as I've pointed out already -- no solid info in the solicit at all? There is no information about how the plot was written and if it was collaborated on. There is no indication of what the plot itself is. Therefore how can your position be solid?

RSC

[Doctor Doom]

RSC, is there really any point in us arguing? I mean, I'm all for debating under any circumstances but this just seems ridiculous.

Suffice it to say I was trying to cut off any attempt to use this solicit as an argument on ANY side, which I believed was forthcoming though I had no particular specific reason to believe as such.

Good lord, I'm wondering if people are determined to argue with everything I say on principle! They can't do that- that's MY job!

[redstatecap]

lol

[The Night Phantom]

Well, I hope that’s the end of RSC and Doom’s discussion. Engage and I are much funnier.

[thew40]

Yeah . . . so . . .

Who else is picking this up? According to this article here forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=90932, it's going to serve as an Epilogue to "Civil War." It would make sense to have Bendis write it, as he was the one that wrote the Prelude with "Illuminati."

~W~

[Yellowjacket]

docdoom said:

I'm not delusional. Everyone ELSE on this site minus the W is

Make it three as I enjoy Bendis´ NA (don´t hit me for that ;D), at least most of it.

On the other hand I probably won´t buy this book. I see it like engage and in this one there´s even no Howard in it to save the day!
One can think of Bendis what one likes, but Bendis clearly writes too much books. He should NOT write Mighty Avengers, too...

[balok]

Civil War is selling very well, so Marvel is doing what any wise businessman would do: they're getting as much mileage from it as they can, launching new books and specials. My experience from the past suggests that stuff duct taped onto the side of an "event" will be a lower quality. On top of that, Bendis' recent writing doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.

So this one's don't fail to miss, IMO.