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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 14, 2006 12:24:59 GMT -5
From New Joe Fridays www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays17.htmlA new title has been added to Civil War. It's called Civil War: The Return, cover is: (I had to squint pretty hard to see the logo) Interesting, looks like Captain Marvel logo but it could be anything.... An speculation? What other character will make a spectacular debut in the war tearing apart the marvel universe?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Oct 14, 2006 14:50:29 GMT -5
Only one return. as far as I'm concerned, the only one which would catch my interest, would be the return of common sense... That, oh well... and the return of the REAL Avengers, who have been hijacked & coopted by Mr. Bendis &Co. No doubt, they've been send by Franklin (or the Scarlet Witch) to Other Earth again, acting on orders from good ol' Joe.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 14, 2006 16:46:08 GMT -5
Jesus is back. And Mighty Marvel’s got ‘im!The thought of Captain Marvel is tempting…but which one? Genis-Vell was recently…dispersed. So, he’s a possibility. His sister Phyla isn’t really gone—in fact, she appears in the current She-Hulk storyline—but she’s not on Earth, so it could be she. Mar-Vell? Practically sacrilege…but supposedly reviving Bucky Barnes is too, and that’s recently been done. Monica Rambeau is still around and doesn’t really lend herself to this hype. But then there’s this little tidbit dropped by Joe Quesada in Joe Fridays back around American Thanksgiving last year:My guess is that The Return revolves around this mystery Captain. The cover reminds me of the White Event, but…nahh.
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Post by Tana Nile on Oct 14, 2006 22:28:04 GMT -5
There's already too many heroes who have used the name. It should have stayed dead with Mar-Vell. But of course, there's licensing concerns, so...
a new Captain Marvel. Who isn't his son (refering to Genis or Teddy Altman?). Whatever.
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Post by thew40 on Oct 15, 2006 11:02:47 GMT -5
Jesus is back. And Mighty Marvel’s got ‘im! HAHAHAHAHA! I thought that exact same thing! I'm really interested now. I dunno how in the world it's going to tie into Civil War (which really doesn't need another book for me to try and order), but I'm darn curious. Thanks for the catch-up on the other Captain Marvels, btw. ~W~
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 15, 2006 12:02:04 GMT -5
Jesus is back. And Mighty Marvel’s got ‘im! HAHAHAHAHA! I thought that exact same thing! An earlier draft included the sentence, “And this time he’s mad”… With that celestial imagery—and given a certain plotline of Civil War—one might think of another godly return, of Thor and/or Asgard. But we shall see… You’re welcome. Who says this isn’t the Enthusiastic Marvel Era of Cosmic-Captain-Character Coming-Attraction Catch-Ups?!! Face front, true believer!
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 15, 2006 14:53:58 GMT -5
New solicit- apparantly:
"As the Civil War rages, two of the universe’s greatest heroes are confronted with pasts they can’t leave behind in two heart-rendering tales. On Earth, the Sentry confronts his inner demons as the shadows of past and future battles tear him apart. Within The Negative Zone, the walls of 42, are pulled back to reveal the return of one of the Marveldom’s greatest heroes…now face-to-face with a Universe they no longer recognize."
Hmm, sounds like Marvel, but why would he be in 42?
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 15, 2006 15:59:59 GMT -5
Hmmm... Couple of points here: The Sentry isn't included in my "...the universe's greatest hero(sic)". "...now face-to-face with a Universe they no longer recognize." AT LEAST THEY ARE FINALLY ADMITTING WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS!!!!!!
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 15, 2006 18:01:43 GMT -5
[remarks added by NP]"As the Civil War rages, two of the universe’s greatest heroes are confronted with pasts they can’t leave behind in two heart-rendering [“rending” would make a lot more sense] tales. On Earth, the Sentry confronts his inner demons as the shadows of past and future battles tear him apart. Within The [lowercase “the”] Negative Zone, the walls of 42, [omit superfluous comma] are pulled back to reveal the return of one of the Marveldom’s greatest heroes…now face-to-face with a Universe they [tsk, tsk—plural reference to singular antecedent] no longer recognize." At first I thought our fellow board member made a few typos when copying the issue description by hand—but no, it’s the exact text. Where are the editorial standards?!? Those Captains Marvel often spend time in the Negative Zone…maybe it was built around one of them. Or maybe the Captain in question switched places with someone incarcerated there—that’s an old hobby of theirs too.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 16, 2006 16:46:39 GMT -5
Hmmm... Couple of points here: The Sentry isn't included in my "...the universe's greatest hero(sic)". "...now face-to-face with a Universe they no longer recognize." AT LEAST THEY ARE FINALLY ADMITTING WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS!!!!!! ...To be fair I think Marvel would agree that depending on how long this character has been dead he may no longer recognize the universe. I mean compare March 2004 to March 2007 -There are two avengers teams, completely different to the old one -There is a new Fantastic Four -Spider-Man is Unmasked -There's a completely different set of Thunderbolts -The marvel universe's biggest villain has returned. Again. -There is a huge divide among the heroes -Black Panther is married to Storm -There are barely any mutants left, they are monitored by Sentinels And that's just off the top of my head!
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 16, 2006 21:03:57 GMT -5
The Sentry isn't included in my "...the universe's greatest hero(sic)". "...now face-to-face with a Universe they no longer recognize." AT LEAST THEY ARE FINALLY ADMITTING WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS!!!!!! Oh, my stars and garters…it’s the Impossible Man. (“ NO! NO, YOU’RE RAPING MY YOUTH, YOU MONSTER!”) Well, if being able to turn into just about anything is pretty great…
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Post by Engage on Oct 17, 2006 14:47:28 GMT -5
I really thought you were all crazy until I radically adjusted the contrast on my monitor. Now I see what you're all talking about.
I'm sort of interested in the Sentry story. He's a character I think could be really interesting with just a couple of Solo Spotlights.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Oct 17, 2006 17:26:38 GMT -5
But NOT by Bendis... Never by Bendis... he could write 10 minis about him & the Sentry would still be a boring (whining) cipher...
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 17, 2006 18:18:20 GMT -5
I really thought you were all crazy until I radically adjusted the contrast on my monitor. Now I see what you're all talking about. Don’t let that stop you from thinking we’re all crazy!! Could the returning hero be…another aspect of the Sentry? The guy’s got multiple-personality and -manifestation issues already, and he also has some history with the Negative Zone…
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Post by balok on Oct 26, 2006 17:04:25 GMT -5
I'm sort of interested in the Sentry story. He's a character I think could be really interesting with just a couple of Solo Spotlights. Sorry, but the only Sentry story I'm interested in is the one where the Void swallows him up and implodes because he can't exist anymore!
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Post by The Night Phantom on Nov 7, 2006 18:07:01 GMT -5
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Post by thew40 on Nov 7, 2006 21:15:30 GMT -5
Interesting.
I like what he had to say about Sentry. Jenkins is really the only one who can write the Sentry very well, IMO.
~W~
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Post by Tana Nile on Nov 8, 2006 16:23:18 GMT -5
I liked Jenkin's work on the recent Sentry mini-series. I do think this character has potential, despite my initial dislike of the concept.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Dec 3, 2006 22:41:49 GMT -5
This week, my pusher—er, I mean, one of the friendly fellows at the shop where I buy most of my comics—advanced a theory as to the identity of the returning hero. His thought is that it might be Nova (Richard Rider)—the character has been generally absent in the last few years; the star logo is reminiscent of Nova’s emblem and name; and currently Nova is embroiled in the Annihilation cosmic event, whose principal villain is Annihilus, a Negative Zone denizen. I’m not sure how that would fit with the walls of 42 being pulled back to reveal the hero, which would seem to imply the hero being a prisoner of 42—but then the solicitation where that information comes from is quite substandardly written. Incidentally, I think you could just as easily substitute Quasar for Nova in the aforementioned theory. However, if I had to base a guess on those two choices, I would guess Nova—although Quaze has his partisans (myself included), Nova likely has more recognition and marketing power.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 4, 2006 11:47:40 GMT -5
The wrench in there with that theory is that it has been specifically stated again and again that Annihilation hs basically 0 connection to Civil War. Nova would be a pretty d**n big connection IMO. Plus the Annihilation War, according to Tom b, ends after civil war.
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Post by thew40 on Dec 5, 2006 12:50:57 GMT -5
I thought Annihilation took place before "Civil War?"
Nova would be genius, though I doubt it's him. My guess is that it's Captain Mar-Vel.
By the by, where's Rick Jones?
~W~
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 5, 2006 13:12:27 GMT -5
Rick has shuffled off into obscurity where I pray he remains for some time Annihilation has to take place during CW, since Nova specifically mentions the heroes fighting each other. I'd guess we have a good time span left more it ends, hence my conclusion it ends after the war- and that would still be a pretty big link if he showed up.
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Post by Van Plexico on Dec 5, 2006 13:23:27 GMT -5
The logo at the start of this thread is 100%, no foolin', Captain Marvel's logo. Not Nova, not anyone else. That's CM. (And, really, the shape and color of it reminds me of Monica's, more than anything else.)
But, based on the Jenkins comments, I lean toward it being Thor rather than Mar-Vell. I think the CM logo is a red herring.
Why? Because Mar-Vell wouldn't have much to say about registration, and no one would think his "coming back" would do much of anything to solve the Civil War issues.
(Not to mention all the setup to make Teddy into the new/coming Captain Marvel, by changing Monica's name and shoving poor, perpetually-mistreated Genis offstage.)
Thor, on the other hand.... Him I can see being considered very important to how it works out, given his power, his status as a founding Avenger, etc.
But that would be sort of anticlimactic, huh?
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Post by balok on Dec 5, 2006 17:19:25 GMT -5
It's going to go badly for Iron Man when Thor returns. Thor is likely to be more than a little upset that a clone of him was created, and worse than that, used to do murder in his name. I would be.
Can Iron Man take Thor in a fight? I'd guess not, but it seems like the kind of fight that could escalate.
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Post by thew40 on Dec 5, 2006 20:02:37 GMT -5
I greatly doubt it's Thor.
I'm more than certain that when and if Thor comes back, it'll probably be in "Civil War" itself or one of the closer tie-ins.
"The Return" was added last minute shortly after the delays were announced.
~W~
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Post by uberwolf on Dec 5, 2006 22:10:20 GMT -5
Iron Man won't have to fight Thor, Ares will be there to fight for him. *sigh*
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Post by The Night Phantom on Dec 5, 2006 22:51:52 GMT -5
The wrench in there with that theory is that it has been specifically stated again and again that Annihilation hs basically 0 connection to Civil War. Nova would be a pretty d**n big connection IMO. Plus the Annihilation War, according to Tom b, ends after civil war. On the other hand, the threefold wrench (if that makes any sense) in your counterargument is: - We’ve already established that the Tom Brevoort claims about Civil War that you manage to dig up are inconsistent with what actually gets published in Civil War and its tie-ins.
- The fact that a common character might appear in both CW and Annihilation without a breach of continuity as to his location does not necessarily constitute a major connection. Of course it depends on the use of such a character and the eyes of the beholder.
- Marvel comics don’t necessarily get published in chronological story order, and besides—who are we to expect consistent scheduling from Marvel on Civil War or much of anything else?
By the by, where's Rick Jones? I believe that last I heard, he was in Runaways backing Excelsior (soon to be renamed the Loners). That was a little while ago. I greatly doubt it's Thor. I'm more than certain that when and if Thor comes back, it'll probably be in "Civil War" itself or one of the closer tie-ins. "The Return" was added last minute shortly after the delays were announced. One argument for Thor is Fantastic Four #537. Like its preceding issue, the cover is labeled “The Road to Civil War”. Unlike its preceding issue (which discusses the registration proposal somewhat), #537 has no direct relevance to anything going on in Civil War thus far, so far as I can tell. The issue revolves around Mjolnir’s fall to Earth; the return of Mjolnir’s rightful wielder in the Civil War event could be the particular place which FF #537’s road leads to. Even if so, of course it’s possible that the return would occur in some place other than this one-shot, as you suggest. But then, The Return could be a lead-in to whatever place that would be—just as Choosing Sides, another last-minute addition, leads into various comics that had already been planned.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 6, 2006 11:48:18 GMT -5
On the other hand, the threefold wrench (if that makes any sense) in your counterargument is: - We?ve already established that the Tom Brevoort claims about Civil War that you manage to dig up are inconsistent with what actually gets published in Civil War and its tie-ins.
So you're claiming a claim made by Tom Brevoort and Joe Q is wrong? Fine, of course, but this case is nothing like those you mentioned above. The above is very open to interpretation, both Tom, Joe and the writer of Annihilation (Keith Griffen, I believe?) have all stated there is absoloutely no connection, and they have no reason to lie or state an untruth. [/li][li]The fact that a common character might appear in both CW and Annihilation without a breach of continuity as to his location does not necessarily constitute a major connection. Of course it depends on the use of such a character and the eyes of the beholder.[/quote] Hardly a mere "common character"- Nova is the protagonist of Annihilation and one would imagine that if he returns he might happen to mention that he just saved the entire galaxy from impending doom. [/li][li]Marvel comics don?t necessarily get published in chronological story order, and besides?who are we to expect consistent scheduling from Marvel on Civil War or much of anything else? [/quote] For something like this, one would assume they would- for the same reason they wouldn't publish ASM 536 before Civil War #5, it gives away story twists. ng Sides[/i], another last-minute addition, leads into various comics that had already been planned.[/quote]
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Post by The Night Phantom on Dec 7, 2006 21:26:25 GMT -5
So you're claiming a claim made by Tom Brevoort and Joe Q is wrong? Fine, of course, but this case is nothing like those you mentioned above. The above is very open to interpretation, both Tom, Joe and the writer of Annihilation (Keith Griffen, I believe?) have all stated there is absoloutely no connection, and they have no reason to lie or state an untruth. Oh, the melodrama! I didn’t even mention Joe Quesada. But I’ve heard he is “psychologically incapable of giving a straight answer”. If he, Brevoort, and Keith (no R) Giffen (I wonder who will be making claims next!) are saying that there is absolutely no connection between Annihilation and Civil War, then strictly speaking they actually are stating an untruth, regardless of their reasons. I don’t know if there are major connections (I’ve read exactly one of the Annihilation comics, I’ve read probably less than half of the Civil War comics, I don’t pretend to know what’s happening in as-yet unreleased issues, and what constitutes a “major” connection depends on the yardstick you use), but clearly there are some connections: they’re both Marvel Universe events, and they both use the Negative Zone as a major plot device, for starters. One might imagine that—rightly or wrongly. That reminds me of another connection between Civil War and Annihilation: in Annihilation, hasn’t Nova already spoken of the events of Civil War? I guess the Nova-talking-about-the-other-event cat has been let out of the bag. One would assume Marvel wouldn’t publish ASM #536 before Civil War #6 for the same reason…! I’m not bullish on Nova’s being featured in The Return. It’s not my theory, and I don’t subscribe to it, though I don’t count it out either. I still favor the notion that the mystery star is either a Captain Marvel person (hmm…Quasar sort-of counts, but…nahh) or the real Thor. We’ll just have to wait and see…
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 8, 2006 5:21:11 GMT -5
That's irrelevant. He wasn't answering anything, just stating it.
Oh that's ridiculous- you're playing with semantics and you know it. I'm going by memory here, but they all said something TO THE TUNE OF there being no big connection between Civil War and Annihilation. Joe Q did specifically cite that in CW1, there's a passing reference to Nova going back into space, and says that's about as much of a connection as they'll make- Nova's remarks in Annihilation #4 would be considered of the same token.
Whyso?
If released before CW5, it gives away Spidey DOES end up fighting iron man, ditching his costume, escaping to the sewers, surviving the next few attacks, and that his family are all intact.
When released before CW6.... it gives away that Spidey survives. Which we knew.
There was widepsread belief among Spider-fans that CW5 would have Aunt May or MJ breathe their last.
Well then I guess this entire debate is fruitless.
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