Ultron
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"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 15, 2006 19:50:58 GMT -5
In information released to comic book retailers Tuesday, Marvel has announced that issue #4 and 5 of their hugely successful Civil War series are being delayed.
Civil War #4 [and all its variant cover editions], originally scheduled to be released tomorrow, is now scheduled for September 20th. Issue #5 and all its variants, originally scheduled for next month, is now scheduled for November 15th.
And because of the nature of the storyline, the delays in the main series will affect the related and tie-in titles, like Civil War: Front Line.
In the announcement, Marvel wrote:
“Over the next few weeks, the Civil War proper title and a few of the tie in books that are closely related to the story in the main book will be shipping later than originally planned. In an attempt to accommodate the creative team of Millar and McNiven and keep the artistic integrity and high standards of the event, we will be shifting the following titles:
CIVIL WAR 4 (JUN061952; $2.99) moves to 9/20 CIVIL WAR 4 TURNER VARIANT (JUN061953; $2.99) moves to 9/20 CIVIL WAR 4 TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (APR068201; $2.00) moves to 9/20 FANTASTIC FOUR 540 (JUN061961; $2.99) moves to 9/20 CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 6 (JUN061955; $2.99) moves to 9/27 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 535 (JUN061938; $2.99) moves to 9/27
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 7 (JUL061956; $2.99) moves to 10/11
CIVIL WAR 5 (JUL061952; $2.99) moves to 11/15 CIVIL WAR 5 TURNER VARIANT (JUL061953; $2.99) moves to 11/15 CIVIL WAR 5 TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (JUL061954; $2.00) moves to 11/15 CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 8 (JUL061957; $2.99) moves to 11/22 PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 1 (JUL061988; $2.99) moves to 11/22 PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 1 (Black and White) (JUL061989; $2.99) moves to 11/22 FANTASTIC FOUR 541 (JUL061965; $2.99) moves to 11/22 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 536 (JUL061941; $2.99) moves to 11/22
CIVIL WAR 6 (AUG062033; $2.99) moves to 12/20 CIVIL WAR 6 TURNER VARIANT (AUG062034; $2.99) moves to 12/20 CIVIL WAR 6 TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (AUG062035; $2.00) moves to 12/20 CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 9 (AUG062036; $2.99) moves to 12/20 PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 2 (AUG062066; $2.99) moves to 12/28
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 10 (AUG062037; $2.99) moves to 1/4/07 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 537 (AUG062018; $2.99) moves to 1/4/07 FANTASTIC FOUR 542 (AUG062045; $2.99) moves to 1/4/07 CIVIL WAR 7 moves to 1/17, Not yet solicited AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 538 Not yet solicited FANTASTIC FOUR 543 moves to 1/24/07, Not yet solicited
NEW ADDITIONS TO THE CIVIL WAR CHECKLIST!
BLACK PANTHER 23 CW December 2006 CIVIL WAR: WAR CRIMES December 2006 ONE SHOT
BLACK PANTHER 24 CW January 2007
BLACK PANTHER 25 CW February 2007 CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 11 February 2007 Also, starting in November some Marvel will be branded as “Casualties of War” -- similar to how they branded titles as “Spider-Man Unmasked” and “Road to Civil War”. Those titles are:
MOON KNIGHT 7
In December
CAPTAIN AMERICA: WINTER SOLDIER SPECIAL IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA SPECIAL MOON KNIGHT 8
In January 2007 BLADE 5 MOON KNIGHT 9 “The need for these shifts came about as the September [for November shipping product] Marvel Previews #37 was going to press and we were not able to make adjustments,” reads Marvel’s explanation to retailers. “The December Marvel Previews will reflect the changes and additions. At this point we do not anticipate further changes to the schedule. We apologize for the inconvenience but feel that this is in the best interest of the quality of the event and for retailers to continue to realize the immense sales for these books. We are announcing these shifts early enough in the hopes that retailers can adjust their buying patterns for the next few months. Also, we hope the addition of a few more key Civil War titles will make up for any lost sales that result from these moves.”
Look for more information regarding these changes as it becomes available.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Aug 15, 2006 20:59:10 GMT -5
Astounding. It’s one thing for Civil War and associated mini-series to be delayed, but this snafu has managed to engulf core titles like FF and ASM.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 15, 2006 21:20:06 GMT -5
This one outright mindboggles me. A book that was supposed to be published in August is going to only be published only next year?!?
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Post by The Night Phantom on Aug 15, 2006 21:34:09 GMT -5
We can’t have the World’s Greatest Comic Magazine risking its “artistic integrity”, now can we? By the way, thanks for posting the info.
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Post by Black Knight on Aug 16, 2006 8:04:58 GMT -5
Typical marvel... Look, we can push all our books, back and still get you all to buy them... I bet on other boards, they are saying this is no big deal, and to just shut up and wait.. LOL
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Post by balok on Aug 16, 2006 10:43:13 GMT -5
I guess they have to move the books containing tie-ins to avoid spoiling Civil War.
But I can't help but... marvel... at the irony: a series intended to stunt sales will end up reducing them (on the year, which is what matters to the bean counters).
Marvel had better be careful people don't realize they can do without its books...
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Post by Black Knight on Aug 16, 2006 12:55:39 GMT -5
YOu know I can't believe the number of people applauding this on other boards. They actually think marvel is doing them a favor by delaying the comic. I swear people have become such sheep.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 16, 2006 13:35:49 GMT -5
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 16, 2006 13:44:17 GMT -5
Actually, I've seen FAR more Marvel-bashing than I have seen Marvel applauding. THe issue of FF now out in January ISN'T the August issue, it's the October issue. We are getting TEN new tie-ins (I count Casualties of War), plus we get to keep the EXCELLENT art of Steve McNiven. Is it an enormous pain? Yes. Do I want to go on a tirade to marvel about it? No. I hate delays, I hate fill-ins more. Yes the delay sucks, but 10 extra books is great and I can't blame Marvel at all. At least they came out and tols us up front why etc. DC tend to delay things and almost hope nobody notices. Plus considering there have been 15 weeks of absoloutely nothing for DC's latest event, I consider us very fortunate Basically, I think this board is too cynical towards Marvel. Oh, and anyone who thinks this will dramatically hurt their sales is dreaming. If anything, by dragging it out they could INCREASE sales- and adding in extra tie-ins is getting a LOT more cash. Naa, this really won't significently hurt Marvel. As someone on newsarama pointed out- when you reread this in a few years do you really want to be going "Oh God, here comes the fill-in issue...."
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Post by balok on Aug 16, 2006 13:49:07 GMT -5
It will hurt their sales per unit time - that is, their sales within a particular span. That's the comment I made. But total sales are less important than sales/time because sales/time relates to cash flow, and it is cash flow that generates profit, and keeps shareholders satisfied.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 16, 2006 16:24:46 GMT -5
Oh I understand- but let's face it, as it was before, marvel'c Civil War Juggernaut is still going to be crushingly succesful. I won't pass judgement on whether they deserve it or not until I've actually read it all.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Aug 16, 2006 21:49:50 GMT -5
Not everyone wants more of it. I don’t pretend to be a market analyst, but the fact is that for the duration of the delay, some monthly regular series are going bimonthly, which I should think would decrease those series’ sales, and there’s no guarantee that the additional tie-ins will pick up the slack. For instance, in my case I will be buying fewer issues of Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man than if they had remained monthly (note: the schedule has both as semimonthly in January), and I foresee myself purchasing only one additional tie-in (the newly added 11th issue of Front Line, since I’m already reading that series). So, in my case, a net loss in sales during that time frame. What the overall effect will be for Marvel’s sales, of course I don’t know. As editor Tom Brevoort has pointed out, the FF’s 45th anniversary celebration—scheduled after the Civil War storyline—would be delayed. I’m hoping Marvel can get Karl Kesel (writer of the recent FF 40th-wedding-anniversary and Death in the Family specials) to whip up an appropriate FF tribute to appear before the end of 2006.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 16, 2006 23:10:03 GMT -5
The Marvel Regime is stuck in 1984. The Zombies keep on double speaking: .Delay is Quality .Less Money is More Money .Failiure is Success And now for something completely different:
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 17, 2006 9:15:28 GMT -5
Wow:
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Post by balok on Aug 17, 2006 9:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Shiryu on Aug 18, 2006 18:42:23 GMT -5
Uff, that's annoying, especially since I don't think the art is that good. With that being said, it was probably inevitable to delay the FF, Spidey and other issues too, seen how closely related they are.
PS, Balok, your link doesn't seem to work
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Post by balok on Aug 20, 2006 17:21:47 GMT -5
PS, Balok, your link doesn't seem to work I just tried it again and it worked for me... what do you see? Anyway, it consisted of a message where Millar basically suggested the McNiven was overworked (that he's a nine or ten book a year artist who didn't get sufficient lead time on this series). Then a couple of paragraphs from McNiven apologizing and taking responsibility for the delay, and finally a capture of a post from Bryan Hitch reminding folks of how often other books were later, how Perez hit his crisis deadlines by using Ordway to do finishes and how the book still had different inkers, who "another company" used fill in art, and how Civil War was put together in a huge hurry. Oh, and there's a "the genius of Bendis" in there, too. So boiled down to it: (1) The book is late because of McNiven, (2) the book is late because of me, (3) you all should be grateful Marvel chose to delay the book because they could have used one of the poorer alternative fixes from one of these past books. I do have to wonder at Marvel's "strategy" of waiting until just before the book was due out to announce the problem. Why the tight lid? Diamond had to know because I'm sure they get the books at least a few days before they ship them for Wednesday arrival. And Marvel certainly had to know if the slip is going to be a full month. Waiting until the last minute seems disrespectful to the retailers who move their product, who will have to deal with irate customers on short notice.
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Post by imperiusrex on Aug 21, 2006 20:53:31 GMT -5
these comparisons that Millar, Hitch, McNiven et al are making aren't really appropriate as Dark Knight, watchmen were out of continuity, self contained series. their delays didn't affect three issues of Legion of Super Heroes or Teen Titans. And I'm tired of these guys giving DC the nuts for going out of their way to meet a deadline. What the hell is with all the whining about art? I loved Crisis' art, even with the differences in style. What about when marvel and DC collect these stories that cut across three or four different books with different writers and artists? I guess those are just pure crap. I guess the Avengers/Defenders war for example should just be shredded and used for toilet paper- there are at least three different wholly competent artists on it!!! I understand the difference when you get al milgrom doing an entire book in three days on deadline as he was wont to do with his work ethic--no one wants to see that sort of rush job mar a good story. but the difference between that and getting a great artist like Finch to do an issue in between isn't quite the same. huge difference. and the idea that marvel is just doing this for the fans and ignoring the sales is a load. if they were just for the fans, then they would not have been so adamant about giving bendis the second avengers book- joe q's answer about that was "well, sales are telling us more people want more bendis, so tough." not one concern about the fans there. marvel is thinking about the trade paperback and sales after the fact; it's not as altruistic as they make it out, really...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 23, 2006 16:05:19 GMT -5
Actually, everyone seems to ignore the fact that TWO WEEKS BEFOREHAND they said CW 4 was delayed 2 weeks. So actually they waited until half a month beforehand before announcing.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 23, 2006 22:55:41 GMT -5
Funky how no Retailers knew, and how Mark Millar himself only got told on the very day the book was (not) coming out - He literally read the news on Newsarama and then from a phone call from Tom Brevoort.
They sure must've announced it with a whisper on an empty room.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 24, 2006 4:40:25 GMT -5
Retailers did know. They got a shipping list at the start of that week. Civil War 4 was NOT on it. They had known for several days it would not be out that week so don't try and claim they didn't.
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Post by Black Knight on Aug 24, 2006 7:49:16 GMT -5
Retailers did know. They got a shipping list at the start of that week. Civil War 4 was NOT on it. They had known for several days it would not be out that week so don't try and claim they didn't. Retailers where told it would be out on the first week of sept. when they recieved there shipping list, then marvel just made this big annoucnement that it was delayed even further. If I was a retailer I would be really ticked. I am sorry but if this was an issue of any comic that didn't effect other comics, no big deal, but this is a big event comic that is pushing back FF and Amazing Spider-Man as well. This was poor planing, and poor judgement by marvel, but all the little fanboys (not saying you are one) well defend them and cry that it is just a comic. Sorry but a business is a business period.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 24, 2006 10:43:46 GMT -5
I am defending Marvel, but not for the reasons some people think. Was it bad business to wait until now? Oh yes, unquestionably. Would it be far worse business to just
A: Not tell anyone or B: Jam in fill-ins
I think so. Both are options DC have taken in the past. Of course I condemn Marvel where condemnation is due, but I do understand this and I don't think it's anything approaching a disaster. It's not going to make me swear off Marvel, that would be, IMO, stupid.
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Post by Black Knight on Aug 24, 2006 12:32:46 GMT -5
I am defending Marvel, but not for the reasons some people think. Was it bad business to wait until now? Oh yes, unquestionably. Would it be far worse business to just A: Not tell anyone or B: Jam in fill-ins I think so. Both are options DC have taken in the past. Of course I condemn Marvel where condemnation is due, but I do understand this and I don't think it's anything approaching a disaster. It's not going to make me swear off Marvel, that would be, IMO, stupid. It won't make me swear off marvel (now if the kill steve rogers then my marvel comics will drop to almost nothing, but that is a different story). However, this is possible the worst thing that could have happen in regards to CW, aside form the writer or artist getting sick. Not only are the effecting the "event" of the year, they are effecting two of the major on going books involve (FF and ASM). This was just horrible planing, horrible thought out. What scares me are people just think who cares...
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Post by imperiusrex on Aug 24, 2006 13:01:20 GMT -5
I am defending Marvel, but not for the reasons some people think. Was it bad business to wait until now? Oh yes, unquestionably. Would it be far worse business to just A: Not tell anyone or B: Jam in fill-ins I think so. Both are options DC have taken in the past. Of course I condemn Marvel where condemnation is due, but I do understand this and I don't think it's anything approaching a disaster. It's not going to make me swear off Marvel, that would be, IMO, stupid. Why do you and some of the folks from Marvel keep giving DC grief for their business decision re: artists filling in. Marvel has done this in the past and will do it in the future. It's not like this is the first time either company has missed a deadline. I can't believe that Marvel has made this decision solely on artistic merit. They've acted in the best interests of business far more often than not and always quote sales whenever they need to justify a decision. Marvel has decided that the future viability of the product depends on consistent artwork and plot points not being revealed prior to their planned dates. They look at what Identity Crisis did for DC and they know the product resonates for years after the first printing, especially a project like this which has gotten mainstream press and will likely get more with the finale of Civil War (which will almost undoubtedly change Spider Man or another major character in some way to get that impact). They don't want to ruin that. The potshots at DC just seem like a way to make Marvel look better and it comes off as cheap and petty.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 24, 2006 14:23:38 GMT -5
I'm not seriously digging at DC, just joking. But if you go to newsarama or.. well, anywhere, half the first posts after the announcement were DC fans saying "OH WELL I'LL JUST GO BACK TO MY TOTALLY ON TIME 52, LOLZ!" Which made me think Um yeah... but the difference is... 52 is mediocre at best. So I guess making fun of DC is a reflexvide defence thing No but seriously I hold nothing against DC. Well I despise Superman, but otherwise I like most DC characters okay, and the Flash was one of my favourite characters in ANY comics. I think of DC/Marvel as a friendly rivalry, and I have a friendly rivalry with DCfans. That's all
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 24, 2006 22:14:11 GMT -5
Retailers did know. They got a shipping list at the start of that week. Civil War 4 was NOT on it. They had known for several days it would not be out that week so don't try and claim they didn't. Retailers knew nothing, until the original solicited day, about the following changes, issued on the Marvel Mailer, received by retailers: This is hardly professional behaviour. I have friends in the retail business in the US which will lose several thousands of dollars on account of this alone, some, unfortunately, having to consider folding from the Comic Book business alltogether. And this, hopefully, without any further delays.
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Post by imperiusrex on Aug 25, 2006 3:00:55 GMT -5
I'm not seriously digging at DC, just joking. But if you go to newsarama or.. well, anywhere, half the first posts after the announcement were DC fans saying "OH WELL I'LL JUST GO BACK TO MY TOTALLY ON TIME 52, LOLZ!" Which made me think Um yeah... but the difference is... 52 is mediocre at best. So I guess making fun of DC is a reflexvide defence thing No but seriously I hold nothing against DC. Well I despise Superman, but otherwise I like most DC characters okay, and the Flash was one of my favourite characters in ANY comics. I think of DC/Marvel as a friendly rivalry, and I have a friendly rivalry with DCfans. That's all I don't think friendly rivalry includes taking potshots at your competitor's artistic integrity. Marvel is saying DC compromises art for commerce. That's fairly low. It's a dig and a cheap dig at that. and one that seems to say Marvel is better. And using fill in art is an action that I must reiterate that Marvel has done any number of times. Newsrama is what it is. I don't care how they do things and how they respond. I only concern myself with this board when it comes to comics. And I think 52 is better than Civil War, too. Or at least less ridiculous...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 25, 2006 4:06:13 GMT -5
So hang on- retailers didn't know until the originally solicited day... and yet I and hundreds of others knew before then?
I would say that they are killing two birds with one stone. THey are picking an excellent example of an issue (Infinite Crisis 7) which was VERY heavily criticsed for the fill-in art and suffered as a result. The fact that it is DC is a furhter bonus. Does anyone really think DC wouldn't have done the same were the positions reversed?
Whereas I think 52 is TOTALLY ridiculous. But then,I lost much of my respect for DC after they printed 6 good issues of Infinite Crisis followed by one of the worst comics I have ever had the displeasure of reading. Again, each to his own.
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Post by imperiusrex on Aug 25, 2006 9:15:01 GMT -5
I haven't seen DC harping about the fact that Marvel can't make its deadlines, and has caused havoc for the retailers, so no I don't think they would. And I think this whole rivalry is really mostly Joe Quesada, I haven't seen anywhere near the amount of smack that Joe Q talks coming out of DC. Plus even if DC did rip them, it wouldn't make it any less of a potshot to take. A friendly rivalry is over whose characters are cooler, not saying that someone is less concerned with putting out a good product. If the way Joe Q treats DC is your idea of friendly, I'm never gonna be your myspace buddy...
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