|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 14, 2007 15:52:22 GMT -5
www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10544Brubaker talks a lot about his plans post-25. Some great stuff there. Tony Stark and the Avengers playing a role for the foreseeable future, more stuff about the Skull and Winter Soldier... I LOVE Brubaker's skull. He's conniving and he get's the mastermind feel just right. One particular telling piece I liked: "We talked about this at the last summit and what people don't seem to get about the Red Skull, is that of all the villains he's the worst one. He's got no excuse he's just out and out evil. He hates the entire world. It's not that he loved Fascism. He just felt Fascism suited his needs Magneto, Dr. Doom and just about all the other villains have some essence of humanity to them or some essence of tragedy that made them who they are. They have a motive for things. There's no one as ****ed up as the Red Skull. He would love nothing more than to see the entire world in shambles at his feet."" Check it out!
|
|
|
Post by balok on May 14, 2007 19:22:43 GMT -5
Sorry, but I'm fairly sure bringing Bucky back was a bad idea, and I know killing Cap was a bad idea, and the one issue I've read penned by Brubaker did nothing for me. I see nothing in the interview to suggest this will be an enjoyable book, or to suggest that it would be worth lifting my 98% ban on Marvel.
|
|
|
Post by Tana Nile on May 15, 2007 0:57:04 GMT -5
I was one of those people who absolutely hated the idea of Bucky coming back. But the way the story evolved, with so much obvious regard for the characters and the history, it won me over. I like this grown-up Bucky. He's a man with a huge weight on his shoulders (the guilt over all the acts commited while he was brainwashed). When he became aware of all the things he'd done, his pain was truly palpable. He could not face Cap after he recovered his memories, which caused Cap anguish as well. Brubaker managed to bring back a character in a meaningful way. It didn't diminish Cap's past angst over Bucky's death - that was still there - but now he had a chance to be reunited with him, and it wasn't happening.
And now it can't happen at all, since Steve is dead. I'm really interested to see how this will affect Bucky, as well as Falcon and Sharon. As much as I still think many at Marvel do not understand Cap or what he stands for, and that he was mis-handled in Civil War, I do feel Brubaker has done a consistently good job and I am eager to see what will happen next.
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 15, 2007 10:26:05 GMT -5
Course you deliberately picked out the one Brubaker comic people DON'T regard as awesome, Balok, and the vast vast majority of Cap fans who read his book and viewed the return of Bucky as a sacrilege now like it- our friend RSC will testify that that's certainly the case over at Alvaro's.
THen again, BALOK? Prejudge and make biased assumptions? NEVER!
|
|
|
Post by imperiusrex on May 15, 2007 10:52:18 GMT -5
well I don't know if the vast majority of Cap's fans have accepted the return of Bucky. Only perhaps an online presence and a number of the 40,000 plus fans who buy the book on a regular basis which we'll never know unless some sort of poll is done. People can buy a book and not support a decision. I read it all the time online about how bringing back or killing character X was a bad idea, but they're still buying the book. I've never been a big fan and there's a line in the Red Menace storyline (a friend gave me the TPB) where Cap and Bucky are fighting a sleeper bot and Cap says something like "it can be like it was before" to Bucky. And maybe it's not now or even five years Marvel time, but it can be. And perhaps at some point some talent will decide that Cap and Bucky are back together again and it'll take away most of the angst and tragedy that Cap has felt over failing him before. But hey at least Tana and I now disagree over something. Had to happen eventually...
|
|
|
Post by Tana Nile on May 15, 2007 11:13:07 GMT -5
But hey at least Tana and I now disagree over something. Had to happen eventually... I knew it couldn't last...I knew Bucky would come between us!!
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 15, 2007 12:41:31 GMT -5
Potential for abuse does not automatically equal abuse, Rex. You're saying they SHOULDN'T do it... because some day, someone might do something wrong with it? Isn't usage of that reasoning exactly why Balok claims gun control is bad?
|
|
|
Post by balok on May 15, 2007 14:29:32 GMT -5
Course you deliberately picked out the one Brubaker comic people DON'T regard as awesome, Balok, and the vast vast majority of Cap fans who read his book and viewed the return of Bucky as a sacrilege now like it- our friend RSC will testify that that's certainly the case over at Alvaro's. THen again, BALOK? Prejudge and make biased assumptions? NEVER! It was more like I picked the Brubaker comic that was available at the time I decided to sample the man's work. I've found the X-Men to be, at best, adequately written (with occasional variance) over the past few years and now collect them only when I catch wind of something particularly brilliant. So far, you're the chief exponent of Brubaker's skill, and since your tastes and mine rarely agree, that's not enough. I'll admit I don't read many comic boards regularly because there simply isn't time. I will also admit that part of the problem is not Brubaker. Part of the problem is Marvel's decision to kill the one character who exemplified all that's wrong with the SHRA. I've no enthusiasm for stories about the satellite characters of that now deceased icon. Because of my disenchantment with Marvel's creative direction at present, I am biased against them. The buzz on a new book has to be spectacular for them to get my dollars, and the book has to grab and keep my interest immediately. They got a lot more leeway from me before the Civil War damaged their world so extensively. So, you're right, the bias is there - but you're wrong in your clear implication that it is without experiential basis, unless you elect, as is your habit, to dismiss the arguments of those with whom you do not agree.
|
|
|
Post by von Bek on May 15, 2007 14:33:44 GMT -5
I've never been a big fan and there's a line in the Red Menace storyline (a friend gave me the TPB) where Cap and Bucky are fighting a sleeper bot and Cap says something like "it can be like it was before" to Bucky. And maybe it's not now or even five years Marvel time, but it can be. And perhaps at some point some talent will decide that Cap and Bucky are back together again and it'll take away most of the angst and tragedy that Cap has felt over failing him before. Bucky is now the WS, who is very different from his former self. It will niver be the same, even if WS find some kind of redemption.
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 15, 2007 14:41:25 GMT -5
Balok, just to show it's not just me... ALL quotes from a CBR thread posted ysterday, NONE by me:
1- "Correction.
Anything written by Brubaker is the Best Book on the Stands. Except Uncanny Xmen from what I hear..."
2- "t times I do think his X-Men stuff is hit and miss.
But I definately will say his Cap stuff is the best stuff on the market right now. "
3- "Uncanny maybe unpopular, but gosh darn it, Brubaker's Captian America, DareDevil, and Immortal Iron Fist MORE than make up for it"
4- "BTW, I love Bru's Cap, DD, and Iron Fist. They are 3 of the best titles on the market, but I really think he missed the mark with Uncanny."
I'm far from the only one.
|
|
|
Post by imperiusrex on May 15, 2007 21:05:22 GMT -5
Potential for abuse does not automatically equal abuse, Rex. You're saying they SHOULDN'T do it... because some day, someone might do something wrong with it? Isn't usage of that reasoning exactly why Balok claims gun control is bad? Nope. I'm looking ahead to potential storylines and basing it on my own writing experience and editorial experience. Bringing Bucky back leads to several plotlines: 1) You ignore him 2) you make him a villain 3) you reunite him with Cap 4) you send him on his own 5) have him replace Cap 6) kill him None of these appeal to me. Ignoring him would be silly. Making him a villain is so trite. Reuniting him with Cap undoes all the angst because even if they don't get along, Bucky still has the option to live a good life so Cap can't feel guilty about that. Sending him on his own is the most viable option, but as someone pointed out on another website, his path is looking terribly like Nomad's (Jack Monroe). Replace Cap? Steve Rogers is Cap. Cap is Steve Rogers. The character is iconic and married to the concept. Just hate the idea of sticking someone else in there and making it fit them Kill him? Then why bring him back in the first place? Just don't see where this character relationship is going that will be of interest. I see why Joss Whedon brought back Colossus and where it's going with Kitty Pryde. I see why Mark Waid brought back Sharon Carter and why exploring that relationship was vital because Cap thought he failed her and how she hardened in the process (and seeing as how the same sort of thing happening with Bucky makes me less inclined to see Cap do the same sort of thing again). So it's not just a knee jerk reaction; it's because I don't think any of the ideas this storyline potentially presents interest me at all.
|
|
|
Post by imperiusrex on May 15, 2007 21:17:07 GMT -5
I've never been a big fan and there's a line in the Red Menace storyline (a friend gave me the TPB) where Cap and Bucky are fighting a sleeper bot and Cap says something like "it can be like it was before" to Bucky. And maybe it's not now or even five years Marvel time, but it can be. And perhaps at some point some talent will decide that Cap and Bucky are back together again and it'll take away most of the angst and tragedy that Cap has felt over failing him before. Bucky is now the WS, who is very different from his former self. It will niver be the same, even if WS find some kind of redemption. Oh why not? Red Skull finds Bucky alive, uses cosmic cube to reverse his age and traps him in a duplicate of the Zemo trap. "This time herr Captain, he dies right in front of you!" But Cap escapes, saves Bucky and he's still a kid. And they pick up where they left off. And then we get a few issues where we see a 1940 sidekick can't acclimate himself in 2007 and wants to give up being a hero and it's all poignant and sad as he realizes he should go live a normal life, but his relationship with Cap keeps him around. The end. Of course, you might say this story is junk, but people said that about the return of Bucky before it happened and some liked it, so based on two sentences where I show how easy it is, you can't really judge how a six part series with good writing twists and turns without being so obvious and up front like I just was and good art might work out. Look they de-aged Spitfire, they reactivated Jim Hammond, this sort of stuff happens all the time. And even if you don't like it, honestly some of the worst ideas in the world can work short term. Of course the problem is does this story work in the long term? I don't think so, but then again I don't think bringing Bucky back in the first place made sense in the long term either...
|
|
Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
|
Post by Tone-Loc on May 16, 2007 1:15:21 GMT -5
Haven't posted in a while, but while we are on the subject of Bucky's "resurrection" as it were...
Let me say this. The Winter Soldier: Winter Kills one-off, included in the Cap Civil War tpb... wow. Quite possibly one of the best written, most reverent stories I have read in quite some time.
It quite literally, for me, has at least 2 or 3 "Cap crying over his torn mother's picture" type moments for me.
Seriously, bringing back Bucky was for almost everyone... a bad idea. And I can guarantee to Cap fans out there, if you ever had the notion where you accepted the fact that Bucky would be eventually be brought back (as no death seems sacred anymore), and you thought to yourself "I guess if they are going to bring him back, I home they figure out a way to do it absoultely, perfectly, right..." ... Brubaker has done it, and he has made a believer out of me.
|
|
fiero84
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 88
|
Post by fiero84 on May 21, 2007 11:07:49 GMT -5
I am learning about Captain America. As I re-involve myself in comics, I'm discovering other marvel heroes. What is the basic premise of this Red Skull? Who is/was he? Didn't he run into Nick Fury one time? (or am I thinking of another villain)I saw the Red Skull in an old 60's Marvel cartoOn (sleeper episode)and am intriqued.
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on May 21, 2007 11:40:46 GMT -5
The Red Skull is, in short, a psychopath.
He was a Nazi villain who opposed Cap in World War 2, and they became arch-foes. The Skull survived like Cap and has sworn to destroy him and all he holds dear, and America itself. He is twisted, racist and genocidal. No honour, no soul, he is pure evil incarnate.
|
|
fiero84
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 88
|
Post by fiero84 on May 21, 2007 15:18:42 GMT -5
The Red Skull is, in short, a psychopath. He was a Nazi villain who opposed Cap in World War 2, and they became arch-foes. The Skull survived like Cap and has sworn to destroy him and all he holds dear, and America itself. He is twisted, racist and genocidal. No honour, no soul, he is pure evil incarnate. I see...Hmm, another human ice cube deal? The Marvel cartoOn, Red Skull tosses a NAZI hand grenade, and Captain America stopped it with his Sheild. It appeared to be the Red Skulls' undoing. His final words to Cap was about his 3 Sleeper cells and we get the impression Red Skull dies or was severely injured, cartoOn does not really elaborate; we don't see him years later.
|
|
|
Post by The Night Phantom on May 21, 2007 21:04:18 GMT -5
The Red Skull, in his own words (penned by Mark Gruenwald), from CA #350:
|
|
fiero84
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 88
|
Post by fiero84 on May 22, 2007 8:04:17 GMT -5
I checked out some comic page art from a 2006 convention link. Wow..This Red Skull guy is scary! ex:..some kid in Brown-shirt class sneaks a comicbook (I like the joke), gets caught by his Instructor, is taken to the principal,a.k.a. Red Skull. you think he'd be smacked with a ruler or @ least chewed-out, but Principal Skull hands him A LUGER!..some frames later,Red Skull hears a shot, turns around, kid seems to have OFFED the instructor whom turned him in. Red Skull grins in the last frame.Yea...He makes Dr.Doom and the Al Quiada look friendly.
|
|
|
Post by Nutcase65 on May 24, 2007 18:11:03 GMT -5
The Red Skull is, in short, a psychopath. actually, he's a Nihilist (sp?)
|
|