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Post by Doctor Doom on May 3, 2007 10:37:46 GMT -5
Newsarama have confirmed that the new Cap will be revealed in Fallen Son: The Death of Captain America #3. With that done, I am now 70% convinced it will be a certain old Avenger returning to the fray... The preview is up at Newsarama- www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/previews/fallen_son_cap.htmlClone? Perhaps... but methinks that is throwing it off. Note the presence of female Hawkeye? Then "someone" catches the shield? Add in the variant cover with TWO Hawkeyes? Ladies and gentlemen, my prediction: Clint Barton will serve his country as only Steve knew how.
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Post by Tana Nile on May 3, 2007 10:56:04 GMT -5
I really hope the replacement is not a clone. I think we've all had enough of that.
Although Hawkeye would be fitting from a spiritual sense, I don't think he has the requisite hand to hand skills. But then, nobody could come in and do exactly what Steve Rogers did.
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Post by redstatecap on May 3, 2007 11:10:20 GMT -5
Honestly I don't see that. It's hard to see Clint being on Iron Man's side given his relationship with Cap. Not that prior characterization means much any more, but still. So I'm going to say "no." And the only "variant" cover I see is the blank one. The possibility was brought up on the CAMB that the body in the tank (and the mystery Cap) is a super-LMD of Cap, like the super-LMD Diamondback which appeared in late V4 and was just recently destroyed IIRC by an alternate Tony Stark in Marvel Team Up. If anything, I'll speculate that the mystery Cap is perhaps an LMD activated by Tony Stark to fill a PR role, and is defeated/destroyed in this issue by the real Hawkeye as an affront to Steve's memory. Although I don't see the cover with two Hawkeyes.
RSC
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Post by Black Knight on May 3, 2007 11:35:29 GMT -5
Well after reading the preview to Cap 26 (I beleive) I am more convinced that the Cap that was killed was a clone. So, I think the real cap is out there somehow.. Just my opinion.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 3, 2007 11:51:21 GMT -5
not just your opinion Black Knight, I join you in the clone investigation as well.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 3, 2007 11:51:51 GMT -5
either that or he's some sort of alternaty reality cap or something.
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Post by redstatecap on May 3, 2007 12:02:59 GMT -5
OK, two distinct scenarios: 1) The Cap we saw get shot was a clone. I don't see this, because it would imply that the Cap that led the whole anti-SHRA thing was a clone, and they aren't going to make their "big event" look ridiculous by doing that. 2) The real Cap was shot and somehow replaced by a clone/a time-shifted body/a super-LMD/whatever, which we see dead on the table. This I think is a possibility, but I also tend to think that it will be discounted in the same issue as I predict there will be an on-panel autopsy with Tony saying: "It isn't a clone or a Space Phantom. It isn't an LMD either. It's Steve." Even if this turns out to be misdirection in the long run, they aren't going to give you the easy out this fast. They've got to milk it, which is the whole point.
RSC
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Post by Black Knight on May 3, 2007 12:18:10 GMT -5
OK, two distinct scenarios: 1) The Cap we saw get shot was a clone. I don't see this, because it would imply that the Cap that led the whole anti-SHRA thing was a clone, and they aren't going to make their "big event" look ridiculous by doing that. 2) The real Cap was shot and somehow replaced by a clone/a time-shifted body/a super-LMD/whatever, which we see dead on the table. This I think is a possibility, but I also tend to think that it will be discounted in the same issue as I predict there will be an on-panel autopsy with Tony saying: "It isn't a clone or a Space Phantom. It isn't an LMD either. It's Steve." Even if this turns out to be misdirection in the long run, they aren't going to give you the easy out this fast. They've got to milk it, which is the whole point. RSC Have you read the preview for Cap 26. What happens with the body is what is leading me to believe it is a clone. That type of information, is not just throw away. Something is going on that will lead to Steve Rogers return as Captain America.
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Post by redstatecap on May 3, 2007 12:37:14 GMT -5
The body that you see there might be a clone or some such. But even if it is, I don't think it will be revealed as such at this time. That would blow the suspense too early, and they want you to continue to believe that Cap is really dead until they are ready to reveal otherwise somewhere down the road. The body (or I should say, the condition of the body) is there as a false clue/red herring which is IMO intended to be discredited. Then, at some point in the future, they will "undiscredit" it. For example, they could pull something like this: Tony Stark autopsies the body on panel and declares that "It isn't a clone, LMD, or Space Phantom. It's really Steve. The SSS just broke down with his death." And we believe that while the book goes merrily on in flashback for a couple of years. Then, as more investigation is done by the supporting cast, it is revealed that time travel is involved and that the body might be the real Steve Rogers plucked out of the distant future, shot and killed, and somehow substituted for the current Steve Rogers. Tony slaps his head and says "By Jove! A Temporal Duplicate! I never thought to check for that!" And so it goes.
RSC
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Post by Black Knight on May 3, 2007 12:58:39 GMT -5
You are probably right, although Brubaker is really good at putting in small hints, and nothing is a throw away red herring with him, normally.
I do agree that they will keep us guess for sometime thought.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 3, 2007 13:49:23 GMT -5
Whatever the deal is with the real Cap, it would appear that whatever replacement Tony has lined up is fighting on HIS side. So he gets the added bonus of having Captain America supporting him.
I'm sure this is going to go over real well.
As for the "when Cap would've been replaced question" it would've been easy to do it at any time. I personally think the real Cap was shot. I don't think any of the wounds were not survivable. The first sniper shot, even though it looked like a neck/throat shot was really a high shoulder shot. The shots from Carol may not have been from an actual firearm. but even so they were slightly off center mass. They could easily write him as being non-fatally wounded.
Again, just don't think he's dead or at least non-revivable.
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 3, 2007 14:10:50 GMT -5
We certainly don't know that any new Cap will necessarily be working for Tony, even if he wants to replace the symbol. And RSC, your point about him being on Iron Man's side because of his relationship with Cap... doesn't necessarily mean anything. I could see Hawkeye being anti-reg, but if Cap went pro-reg I don't think he'd follow him like a dog. And as for variant....
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Post by Black Knight on May 3, 2007 15:23:03 GMT -5
Interesting cover Doom, Joe Q has be teasing the return of Hawkeye for a while, although he claimed Bendis was going to be the one.
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 3, 2007 15:32:16 GMT -5
I'm certain that if Clint isn't Cap, he'll be Ronin. Certain. "Hawkeye" is taken now.
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Post by Black Knight on May 3, 2007 15:47:17 GMT -5
Yep just like Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow.. Sorry, I just know there are a lot of people with the same name functioning at the same time.
Also, Hawkeye is Clints codename.. I think he kinda has dibs. LOL
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 3, 2007 15:52:41 GMT -5
1. Green Lantern is the only comparison that works there.
2. True, but there isn't so much overlap in Marvel. They won't have two people called hawkeye, you know that
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 3, 2007 17:59:36 GMT -5
2. True, but there isn't so much overlap in Marvel. They won't have two people called hawkeye, you know that Like they wouldn't have more than one character running around as Dr. Doom?
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 3, 2007 18:00:30 GMT -5
look out here comes Squirrel Girl
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Post by redstatecap on May 3, 2007 22:54:25 GMT -5
Hawkeye defintitely should have first rights to the name. This young avenger they're pushing now will be passe in a couple of years and he'll have it back again exclusively. I think Clint would be "anti-reg" anyways, but the fact that within the story Cap died as a result of Tony and the pro-regs pretty much guarantees it. Or should. Written in character (again not a given!) Hawkeye should be probably itching to put an arrow through Iron Man's eyeslit. And about the new mystery Cap, add in the fact that this is Ed Brubaker's story, and he'd be foolish to let something like a "real" replacement Cap happen outside his book. And he's already said that no one is going to be in the Cap uniform. That means that this mystery Cap has to essentially be a short-term or one-shot gimmick. That's why I suggest it's an LMD that will be destroyed by Hawkeye.
RSC
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Post by Black Knight on May 4, 2007 7:51:48 GMT -5
1. Green Lantern is the only comparison that works there. 2. True, but there isn't so much overlap in Marvel. They won't have two people called hawkeye, you know that 1. Nope you are wrong, there are currently two Flashes, and two Green Arrows. 2. Your right, if they are smart they will make Clint Hawkeye again.
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Post by Tana Nile on May 4, 2007 10:33:56 GMT -5
1. Green Lantern is the only comparison that works there. 2. True, but there isn't so much overlap in Marvel. They won't have two people called hawkeye, you know that 1. Nope you are wrong, there are currently two Flashes, and two Green Arrows. 2. Your right, if they are smart they will make Clint Hawkeye again. Also there are two Wildcats now.
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Post by balok on May 4, 2007 13:56:13 GMT -5
1. Nope you are wrong, there are currently two Flashes, and two Green Arrows. I believe one of them is now Red Arrow.
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Post by Black Knight on May 4, 2007 14:09:29 GMT -5
1. Nope you are wrong, there are currently two Flashes, and two Green Arrows. I believe one of them is now Red Arrow. Nope... Green Arrow -Ollie Green Arrow - Connor - Ollie's Son Red Arrow - Roy - used to be Arsenal Still two Green Arrows.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 4, 2007 15:48:04 GMT -5
doesn't a green arrow mean it's OK to make a left hand turn?
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Post by uberwolf on May 4, 2007 22:08:06 GMT -5
I think they're both wearing the same shade lipstick..
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 4, 2007 22:37:06 GMT -5
the thing that I really don't care for with Hawkingbird is that they are trying to sell her as being competitive with Hawkeye. There is no way in her short timespan she can be Hawks equal unless she has the same photographic reflexes as Taskmaster.
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 6, 2007 16:16:49 GMT -5
the thing that I really don't care for with Hawkingbird is that they are trying to sell her as being competitive with Hawkeye. There is no way in her short timespan she can be Hawks equal unless she has the same photographic reflexes as Taskmaster. Enjoy your youth while it lasts.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 6, 2007 16:46:22 GMT -5
the thing that I really don't care for with Hawkingbird is that they are trying to sell her as being competitive with Hawkeye. There is no way in her short timespan she can be Hawks equal unless she has the same photographic reflexes as Taskmaster. Enjoy your youth while it lasts. ?? I haven't had any of that for a while. Unless you mean to find a young cutie and enjoy her, but then the wife is not so understanding.
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 6, 2007 17:15:36 GMT -5
Enjoy your youth while it lasts. ?? What I’m saying is this. Clint was about Kate’s age when he became Hawkeye. He’s gotten older since then (even in Marvel time). He’s not so old as to be out of serious contention for the superhero game, but he is old enough that it’s not too crazy to suppose that he might be experiencing the beginning of athletic decline and that a young maverick might come along and seriously challenge his supremacy. If you’re older than whatever age Clint is supposed to be, you might identify with that situation. If not, enjoy the bliss while you yet can.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 6, 2007 17:28:14 GMT -5
I get you, but along Marvel aging timeline I'm not sure that he's in that area os decline yet. Although I'm sure Marvel will write her as his competitive equal.
I guess we'll see.
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