The Burial of Captain America.

[Doctor Doom]

Some more questions to ponder.

1. In Fallen Son, we see Steve Rogers in military uniform in his coffin. In your opinions, is this only right or should be be buried in the old red and blue star-spangled uniform?

2. Is draping his coffin with an American Flag really good enough? What more could be done to dinstinguish this giant among men?

3. Where should he be buried? In an ordinary grave for a fighting man, or should he have some sort of exquisite space in Arlington?

4. What should be inscribed on his tombstone?

Just curious about your opinions on these matters.

[von Bek]

Is Steve Rogers a soldier? And supposing he was one, after CW I thought he wouldn´t be anymore because he refused to follow orders. So why was he buried in military uniform?

[Nutcase65]

Doom those are good questions.

From a purely military standpoint he waould be buried without honors and the cost would be up to those who buried him. He would not be buried in Arlington and the inscription would be up to those who bury him.

I say this because at the time of his demise he was being held for leading insurrection against his country. When we join the services, part of our oath is to never take arms against our country.

I'm just saying, the way things have been written up to this point, if Marvel wanted to truly mirror reality this would be the case.

Now I'm not sure but maybe the President can grant a posthumous pardon. If this were so he would have a Stae funeral with the pageantry befitting a hero of his caliber and would surely be buried in Arlington, unless he had previously made arrangements contrary to that.

His inscription is easy. It would read "I'll be back" (meant to be read in a terminator voice.)

[Doctor Bong]

I could visualize either the Sub-Mariner or the Black Panther (both kings of their realms who were also Cap's comrades-in-arms & have an enormous respect for him) incursioning into the US to steal Cap's body & burying him in either Atlantis or Wakanda, and ensuing tensions on that regard between the US & either of these nations, which would be part of WWH...
The reasoning behind such action by either Namor or T'Challa (or both...) would be that the current US doesn't deserve to be the resting place of one such as Captain America.

[Nutcase65]

but the burial doesn't really matter much since he ain't gonna be dead long, if he is at all.

[balok]

The President should grant him a posthumous pardon.

He should be buried in Arlington National Cemetery, in the same kind of space accorded any soldier there, for that is what he would want.

[redstatecap]

This brings up the whole issue of how Marvel wants this situation portrayed. Stick with me.
In the MU, super-tech exists in every issue when the writer needs it to exist. Therefore, "Bucky" can be preserved on a WWII sub and then revived by the Russians "using captured German technology."
But Cap can get shot and die in a modern hospital. Where's the super-tech? Where's the magic monks that just resurrected Ronin in NA? They suddenly aren't anywhere to be found because that's the story Marvel wants.
So on the burial issue -- why is it reasonable at all that he should be "buried?" Stasis chambers are a dime a dozen, super-healers, straight-up resurrections, etc. -- when the writer wants them to exist.
My point is that the portrayal of a coffin and a "burial" is really just a way to make Cap's death seem more real to the readers to whom real death means coffins and burials, not stasis chambers and super-healing. It's a story tactic, in other words, to convince us that Cap is really, really dead. No, really!
Given that his grave would be certain to be disturbed by one faction or another for one motive or another, it's more reasonable that his remains be held by SHIELD permanently and either a memorial service (no body) or faux burial take place.
And on the issue of Cap's service status, it's just another case of Marvel doing the expedient. Cap hasn't in continuity been a serving member of the US Army since the end of WWII, and hasn't been a SHIELD agent since the 1970s. Yet Marvel needed both of these things to be the case for parts of CW to work, so suddenly he's both an Army officer and a SHIELD agent.

RSC

[Nutcase65]

exactly RSC, and with that in mind I feel that they will also have the president granting a posthumus pardon.

Which will be convenient when they ressurrect him, he will have a clean record.

[redstatecap]

If they even bother with it. Given the ridiculous amount of milking that's going on, we might not find out until next year.
By the time #26 finally hits the stands, there will have been one -- count it -- ONE issue of Captain America in 5 months. Marvel may be cashing in with the "Fallen Son" crap and all the one-shots, but hopefully the long delays they're incurring will kill any momentum on the title. The regulars will stick for now, but all the non-regulars who came on board for the shock death are going to leave just as quickly. And the whole exercise was about getting and keeping those sales.

RSC

[Doctor Doom]

redstatecap said:

This brings up the whole issue of how Marvel wants this situation portrayed. Stick with me.
In the MU, super-tech exists in every issue when the writer needs it to exist. Therefore, "Bucky" can be preserved on a WWII sub and then revived by the Russians "using captured German technology."
But Cap can get shot and die in a modern hospital. Where's the super-tech? Where's the magic monks that just resurrected Ronin in NA? They suddenly aren't anywhere to be found because that's the story Marvel wants.
So on the burial issue -- why is it reasonable at all that he should be "buried?" Stasis chambers are a dime a dozen, super-healers, straight-up resurrections, etc. -- when the writer wants them to exist.
My point is that the portrayal of a coffin and a "burial" is really just a way to make Cap's death seem more real to the readers to whom real death means coffins and burials, not stasis chambers and super-healing. It's a story tactic, in other words, to convince us that Cap is really, really dead. No, really!
Given that his grave would be certain to be disturbed by one faction or another for one motive or another, it's more reasonable that his remains be held by SHIELD permanently and either a memorial service (no body) or faux burial take place.

Agrered. Of course, just in case thjere's some negativity there I ASSUME you know Marvel has been doing that since the 60s- fluctating between fantasy when necessary and realism as necessary.

And on the issue of Cap's service status, it's just another case of Marvel doing the expedient. Cap hasn't in continuity been a serving member of the US Army since the end of WWII, and hasn't been a SHIELD agent since the 1970s. Yet Marvel needed both of these things to be the case for parts of CW to work, so suddenly he's both an Army officer and a SHIELD agent.

Actually no, that's not true. He has been an agent of SHIELD and was in fact called so during the Brubaker run so that was not done solely for civil war. And I don't believe he was ever referred to as currently an army officer. He's undoubtedly a former one, obviously.

And RSC, I somehow have the feeling that no matter WHAT the Cap 26 sales figures, if thery are down siugnificently at all from 25 you will claim it as a failure- even though a success is anything at all above the numbers pre civil war.

[balok]

Former honorably discharged members of the armed forces may be buried in the uniform of their final rank, even if long retired. Cap undoubtedly received an honorable discharge years ago - and what he did since doesn't change what he did for the service back in the day. So he doesn't have to be currently an officer to wear the uniform. I am not certain whether this statement is true of other classes of discharge - but that's likely irrelevant to this particular case.

Remember that, except in the case of extremely vile people, death tends to redeem. Folks will remember Cap for the good he did, and not for the fact that he opposed the SHRA. Even though that opposition likely hacked off folks like Gyrich, the government has nothing to gain by smearing Cap at this point. And his other chief opponent, Tony Stark, likewise has little to gain - he can afford to be magnanimous in victory and should choose to do so for political reasons - Cap probably still has friends among the rank and file of SHIELD, and Tony has not been there long enough to find out who they are and give them the Alberto Gonzales Farewell.

[Doctor Doom]

Even besides any possible pardon which he most certainly earns, I think there's something somehow... fitting... about him being buried in a military uniform rather than a Captain America uniform, though I'm at a loss to explain why.

[Tone-Loc]

Steve Rogers would almost assuredly wish to be buried in Arlington (or maybe even in a neighborhood or family cemetary), in full dress uniform, befitting any officer of the military. Steve Rogers would not want wish to be greater distinguished than others who have died bearing the mantle of Captain America, for one thing, or from any other soldier. I can imagine that Steve Rogers would say that his service as a military officer along with the other brave members of the Armed Forces was more of a privilege than being Captain America.

Aside from that, you don't bury symbols. "Captain America" never dies, even if those who wore the uniform do.

[redstatecap]

docdoom said:

And RSC, I somehow have the feeling that no matter WHAT the Cap 26 sales figures, if thery are down siugnificently at all from 25 you will claim it as a failure- even though a success is anything at all above the numbers pre civil war.

Dicussion continued on dedicated thread.

RSC

[Nutcase65]

toneloc said:

Steve Rogers would almost assuredly wish to be buried in Arlington (or maybe even in a neighborhood or family cemetary),

I think the possibility that he would wish to be in a neighborhood/family/ Avengers plot would be more likely. If you asked him personally about Arlington, I'm sure he'd respond with something about how Arlington is for the regular soldiers, the real heroes. One of his admiral qualities is madesty, he probably wouldn't believe himself worthy. But there is that plot in Arlington where the other two Captain Americas are buried.

[Doctor Doom]

The two other Cap's identities are secrets though. Burying Steve next to them attracts attention to that area which could cause more defacing like that which occured early in Brubaker's run.

[Nutcase65]

That's something I was thinking about Doom. Wherever they bury him, however they do it. His grave is a target for any enemy of America.
If they post a guard they are just endangering that guards life, because there are those in Marvel who would kill to deface the grave of a national symbol.
This whole thing is an interesting topic. Thanks for shooting this question out here.

[Doctor Bong]

The ruins of Avengers Mansion...?

[Doctor Doom]

Maybe not the mansion, but wehat about the memorial garden?

...On the other hand, I wonder if at last they wiull establish some sort of "Captain America Monument" with a museum. It seems more than fitting...

[balok]

Sometimes, when controversial figures are interred, they bury them one place and establish a memorial in a different place. Other tactics include the use of large amounts of heavy materials (like concrete) over the coffin - but that won't actually stop some of Cap's enemies.

[Nutcase65]

balok said:

Sometimes, when controversial figures are interred, they bury them one place and establish a memorial in a different place. Other tactics include the use of large amounts of heavy materials (like concrete) over the coffin - but that won't actually stop some of Cap's enemies.

If there's a chance for a burial, I would bet they'd go with the misdirection.

[Doctor Bong]

When Odin returns he turns Cap into a star...
No, wait... wrong reality...