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Post by imperiusrex on Mar 30, 2007 15:08:35 GMT -5
From Avengers #44 vol. 3. Busiek just knocks it out of the ballpark with this one. I think this is exactly what I felt that regardless of how well a story is written, you just don't kill Cap that way...
Blow winds! Roll clouds! Storms of Earth and sky, rage at this obscenity! Thor the god of Thunder commands thee!
For what transpired here today--is most foully, vilely wrong! Long ago did I accept that the mortals would die before me--that their lives were as brief as a summer's afternoon--
But CAPTAIN AMERICA is more than just a man!
He is the best of his people--the best of mankind-- and he deserves better than this!
This man--this hero--he should not have died like this!
Not fallen to an attack he could not defend against! Not made a mindless slave to a cause he would have despised! Not this man! He deserved more--aye, he deserved better--and by my hammer-- HE SHALL BE AVENGED!
Now of course when Thor comes back, any bets that in the current Marvel U, he'll be just fine with all that happened and won't open Stark up like a buzzsaw on a tin can?
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 30, 2007 15:42:13 GMT -5
One of my favorite moments from the Busiek run. Not only shows how very much Cap means to Thor, but the awesome power of the God of Thunder unleashed.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 30, 2007 16:07:49 GMT -5
Well maybe, in order to keep him pacified Stark will team Thor up with Captain Americlone. Thor won't mind.  |
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 30, 2007 16:20:36 GMT -5
I am planning on buying the new Thor book, and I really really hope JMS draws on Thor's profound respect and admiration for Cap and makes a splash in the post-CW MU.
I am curious to see how Don Blake handles the registration, and if IM comes to get Thor to register, and whoever else mght be residing in Asgard County, Oklahoma. Maybe they can have a spinoff with some of Thor's cousins called the Dukes of Asgard! lol
At any rate, aside from my eye rolling at Asgard being in Great Plains USA, I really am excited and looking forward to the new book. I hope I am not disappointed.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 30, 2007 17:32:59 GMT -5
You know, that would be an awesome idea if we get so see Sif wearing daisy dukes...!!!
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 30, 2007 17:35:09 GMT -5
Asgardian hillbillies.....why not, it makes about as much sense as everything else going on at Marvel.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 30, 2007 17:37:25 GMT -5
I am curious to see how Don Blake handles the registration, and if IM comes to get Thor to register, and whoever else mght be residing in Asgard County, Oklahoma. If the relationship between Donald Blake and Thor is the classical one, I wonder who would be subject to registration. Thor’s the superhero, not Blake. But I suppose one could make the argument that Blake has the superpower of turning into Thor, and so maybe Blake would be legally obligated. Would they each have to register? Also note that the Eternals refused to play the mortals’ registration games, and Iron Man essentially exempted them. Possibly something similar could happen with the Asgardians and other like groups. Can you imagine Iron Man trying to force registration on Uatu when he showed up to watch something? |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 30, 2007 17:44:35 GMT -5
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 30, 2007 22:12:29 GMT -5
Getting back to Thor’s assessment of Cap, here’s another quote that might seem appropriate in light of current events. The scene is from Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #1; and the Hulk, the Wasp, and Professor X have all suggested Cap for leader of the heroes’ faction:Interesting last sentence…
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Post by thew40 on Mar 30, 2007 22:49:32 GMT -5
While I feel as though Iron Man did the wrong thing for the right reason, I feel as though Stark needs a come uppance. And I feel as though it will come in the form of a hammer . . .
I can't wait to see Thor's reactions to Cap's death.
~W~
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 31, 2007 0:09:42 GMT -5
From Avengers #44 vol. 3. Busiek just knocks it out of the ballpark with this one. I think this is exactly what I felt that regardless of how well a story is written, you just don't kill Cap that way...
Blow winds! Roll clouds! Storms of Earth and sky, rage at this obscenity! Thor the god of Thunder commands thee!
For what transpired here today--is most foully, vilely wrong! Long ago did I accept that the mortals would die before me--that their lives were as brief as a summer's afternoon--
But CAPTAIN AMERICA is more than just a man!
He is the best of his people--the best of mankind-- and he deserves better than this!
This man--this hero--he should not have died like this!
Not fallen to an attack he could not defend against! Not made a mindless slave to a cause he would have despised! Not this man! He deserved more--aye, he deserved better--and by my hammer-- HE SHALL BE AVENGED!
Now of course when Thor comes back, any bets that in the current Marvel U, he'll be just fine with all that happened and won't open Stark up like a buzzsaw on a tin can? Good one -- very powerful moment where Thor goes absolutely berserk over Cap's seeming death. Recall that even the artistic representation of Thor's face changed into something almost monstrous. RSC |
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 31, 2007 0:12:47 GMT -5
While I feel as though Iron Man did the wrong thing for the right reason, I feel as though Stark needs a come uppance. And I feel as though it will come in the form of a hammer . . . I can't wait to see Thor's reactions to Cap's death. ~W~ I don't know... Thor's background is that of an absolute monarchy. So he could well be a very law-and-order guy who believes, like a lot of the pro-reg heroes were written as believing, that Cap was in the wrong to disobey the law of the land. JMS might well write him as sad that it ended that way, but ultimately accepting of the fact that there was no other possible outcome for such disobedience. RSC |
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 31, 2007 13:02:28 GMT -5
I actually think that a lof of it will depend on pressures "from above" at Marvel. JMS, throughout CW in ASM, showed to be strongly against Registration. As such, if it depends only on him, Thor will be unlikely to register himself. Great quotes from Thor ! Here is mine (with pic  )  |
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 31, 2007 13:07:12 GMT -5
You know Shiryu, that panel just gave me a big lump in my throat...what a great moment.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 31, 2007 13:10:31 GMT -5
Pity Cap doesn't wear his classic costume, but other than that, it's one of my all time faves from Thor book |
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Post by von Bek on Mar 31, 2007 14:02:48 GMT -5
I´m gonna have to disagree with many of you guys (and girl) here. To me that quote from the Kang Wars was too melodramatic and out of character from Busiek´s part. C´mon, Thor lost many mortal friends during the centuries, why would he be so freaked out by Cap´s death? In Marvel time they know each other for what... 8 or ten years? There were other Avengers there too, why didn´t Thor even mentioned their fall in the hands of the Presence? Thor and Cap are not the Authority´s Apollo and Midnighter, they´re not in love with each other or anything...
runs from the torches and pitchforks
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 31, 2007 16:23:07 GMT -5
Get him ! Get him ! fire your weapons !  I don't think Thor has lost that many mortal friends over the centuries, I seem to remember that, outside some brief periods in his young days, or as Sigfried, he spent most of his time in the company of gods and not mortals. Also, we can assume that the friends he lost in the past now live in Valhalla, since they likely were warriors born and believed in Odin and the Norse Gods, while Cap, who doesn't, could end up somewhere else in his after-life. As such, loosing Cap would truly be forever, thus justifying his rage
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Post by thew40 on Mar 31, 2007 17:44:13 GMT -5
That panel is kinda . . . I'm sorry . . . corny.
~W~
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 31, 2007 17:50:50 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think it's even the best Cap bit in that storyline, or close to it. There are far better bits in the penultimate issue of "THe Kang Dynasty" (Which as you may know is among my favourite Avengers stories) when we see Cap's anger at Kang yet staunch refusal to sink to his level, and that even-better line from Thor: As Cap and Kang confront in the ruins of his crashed ship, Thor stops the others from intervening. Wasp complains that Kang is a murderer who deserves no honourable one-on-one combat and Thor responds...
"You misunderstand me. We leave Captain America to face him not out of respect for the foe... but because Captain America is all that shall be needed."
Plus between his Avengers run and JLA/Avengers I honestly think Busiek idolises Cap a little too much.
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Post by imperiusrex on Mar 31, 2007 19:26:03 GMT -5
I´m gonna have to disagree with many of you guys (and girl) here. To me that quote from the Kang Wars was too melodramatic and out of character from Busiek´s part. C´mon, Thor lost many mortal friends during the centuries, why would he be so freaked out by Cap´s death? In Marvel time they know each other for what... 8 or ten years? There were other Avengers there too, why didn´t Thor even mentioned their fall in the hands of the Presence? Thor and Cap are not the Authority´s Apollo and Midnighter, they´re not in love with each other or anything... runs from the torches and pitchforksmaybe just tar and feathers... now let's see if I can change your mind. first of the heroes there, Quicksilver Firebird, Black Knight and Cap, Thor is obviously most close to Cap. Second, arguably, Cap is the greatest mortal warrior that Thor has ever met. Between his will and his honor, Cap is also among the most noble Thor has ever met. And what is the greatest honor a warrior of that stature can get in Norse eyes? Valhalla. Or the mortal equivalent. So cap who will live as a mindless drone for all eternity will be forever denied a warrior's death and a warrior's legacy. And y'know, Thor is occasionally prone to a little hyperbole, so it doesn't seem out of character for him to react with some strong words and actions. As to its corniness, well I found all of Civil War corny amd ridiculous so, you know it's just a matter of taste... And if idolizing Cap is wrong then I don't want to be right. |
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 31, 2007 22:51:14 GMT -5
And if idolizing Cap is wrong then I don't want to be right. Amen!!!  |
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 31, 2007 22:55:56 GMT -5
That panel is kinda . . . I'm sorry . . . corny. ~W~ Well Dubya, I'm sorry that there are no ninjas in that panel. That would've been kewl. RSC |
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 1, 2007 11:03:21 GMT -5
RSC- that would be hilarious if it were, y'know, in any way remotely accurate. Rex, Tana Nile- I DO think there is such a thing as taking Cap-worship too far and I think Busiek does it. He's not infallible. He's not flawless. That's boring. We leave that stuff for DC |
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 1, 2007 11:21:05 GMT -5
RSC- that would be hilarious if it were, y'know, in any way remotely accurate. It was accurate. There were, in fact, no ninjas in that panel. Now, I admit my following statement was sarcasm, as indicated by the spelling of "cool" as "kewl." But hey, for some people, a dash of ninjas can enliven any dish. RSC |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 1, 2007 11:29:29 GMT -5
RSC- that would be hilarious if it were, y'know, in any way remotely accurate. It was accurate. There were, in fact, no ninjas in that panel. I assumed Doc was making an April Fool gag. Reworded for clarity of reference. |
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 1, 2007 13:35:36 GMT -5
RSC- that would be hilarious if it were, y'know, in any way remotely accurate. Rex, Tana Nile- I DO think there is such a thing as taking Cap-worship too far and I think Busiek does it. He's not infallible. He's not flawless. That's boring. We leave that stuff for DC well, I've always thought the thing that made cap interesting is that he's a near infallible superhero, but can't manage his personal life in any way. it's almost as if he doesn't know how to be steve rogers. that's hardly flawless. it's just a different shade of character. some people don't see those shades. i think it's far less predictable than yet another hero with feet of clay thing that marvel is doing now with practically every character. but again it's a matter of taste... |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 1, 2007 16:18:12 GMT -5
RSC- that would be hilarious if it were, y'know, in any way remotely accurate. It was accurate. There were, in fact, no ninjas in that panel. Now, I admit my following statement was sarcasm, as indicated by the spelling of "cool" as "kewl." But hey, for some people, a dash of ninjas can enliven any dish. RSC RSC I believe that Domm was pointing out that he, himself IS a ninja. Or the clone of a ninja, or the twin of a clone of a ninja. |
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Post by von Bek on Apr 2, 2007 9:22:06 GMT -5
Get him ! Get him ! fire your weapons ! Oh my god, our Mod is becoming violent!!!  I don't think Thor has lost that many mortal friends over the centuries, I seem to remember that, outside some brief periods in his young days, or as Sigfried, he spent most of his time in the company of gods and not mortals. Also, we can assume that the friends he lost in the past now live in Valhalla, since they likely were warriors born and believed in Odin and the Norse Gods, while Cap, who doesn't, could end up somewhere else in his after-life. As such, loosing Cap would truly be forever, thus justifying his rage Thor as Siegfried? Don´t remember that. Wouldn´t his equivalent in the German pantheon of the Gods be Donar? And in many Marvel stories Thor fought alongside Vikings, so he certainly had good mortal friends before the Marvel heroes. But good point about Cap and Valhalla. |
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Post by von Bek on Apr 2, 2007 9:33:56 GMT -5
maybe just tar and feathers... now let's see if I can change your mind. first of the heroes there, Quicksilver Firebird, Black Knight and Cap, Thor is obviously most close to Cap. Ok, but he didn´t even mention the others... that was a little odd. He would at least think of Quicksilver and BK as his Brothers-in-Arms too... Second, arguably, Cap is the greatest mortal warrior that Thor has ever met. Between his will and his honor, Cap is also among the most noble Thor has ever met. I think here is where we part ways. I like CA as Steve Rogers, the human being. You seem to like him better as some kind of perfect role model that even a God would worship. And Thor the norse Thundergod almost crying and all freaked out because of what the Presence did (he must have seen worse things happen to friends) was also a bit weird. And what is the greatest honor a warrior of that stature can get in Norse eyes? Valhalla. Or the mortal equivalent. So cap who will live as a mindless drone for all eternity will be forever denied a warrior's death and a warrior's legacy. And y'know, Thor is occasionally prone to a little hyperbole, so it doesn't seem out of character for him to react with some strong words and actions. It was out of character for him to be so melodramatic, but good point about the Valhalla bit, close to what Shiryu said. And if idolizing Cap is wrong then I don't want to be right. See my comment about what we expect from the character. |
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Post by von Bek on Apr 2, 2007 9:35:34 GMT -5
Rex, Tana Nile- I DO think there is such a thing as taking Cap-worship too far and I think Busiek does it. He's not infallible. He's not flawless. That's boring. We leave that stuff for DC OH MY GOD!!! I agree with Doctor Doom!!! ;D |
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