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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 28, 2007 17:18:58 GMT -5
I know the first response of many is to say no, but think a second.
We all expect that Marvel has something in mind to bring him back. But I'm not sure that they should bring him back, at least not right away. Everybody expects some comic twist and no Cap is back.
I think it would take good writers, but I also think it would be interesting to leave Steve dead for at least a year.
Whatta you think?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 28, 2007 18:14:11 GMT -5
Agree... at year at the very least... Or until Quesada leaves...
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Post by uberwolf on Mar 28, 2007 18:59:13 GMT -5
In todays Marvel it'll all depend on how well the "new" Captain America sells. The faster they bring him back, the cheaper his death becomes. Captain Marvel stayed dead for decades... oh nevermind, it was still a cheap ploy to bring him back.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Mar 29, 2007 12:50:30 GMT -5
Yeah, he's really dead, but he's a clone. The real cap has been in prison for years. That's my prediction.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 29, 2007 14:16:05 GMT -5
Yes. Keep him dead preferably for at least 5 years. (Yeah right!)
He deserves better than a hoky cliché resurrection in a year or two.
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Post by balok on Mar 29, 2007 15:05:50 GMT -5
Leave him dead, until the Marvel Universe changes again.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 29, 2007 17:25:37 GMT -5
Also, I think it would give me more confidence in the skills of the writers. It will take a very good writer to keep Caps book interesting with no Steve Rogers. This is an opportunity for someone to step up and show they have some serious writing chops, rather than just using some dues ex machina to bring him right back.
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 2, 2007 14:19:31 GMT -5
Did anyone think that Brubaker had already has a plan for the return of Cap (Steve). Think about it, he got something from Doom, he has Zola doing something for him. Doom could have supplied Skull with a way to trap Rogers soul, then Zola clones him, and they place the soul in the clone body, then Skull as Roger's trapped and showes him how bad the world has become without him there.
To me that is so Skull, just shooting Roger's would never be enough, he would want to torture him.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 2, 2007 17:11:31 GMT -5
Did anyone think that Brubaker had already has a plan for the return of Cap (Steve). Yes. I haven’t read a lot of Brubaker (not even this series), but I’ve read some of his work and followed some other stories from afar, and he definitely strikes me as a Man With a Plan. (Or a dozen…)
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 2, 2007 21:38:18 GMT -5
I'm sure they already have a plan,... I was just thinking they could probably run some decent storyline while stretching out his absense.
World without a cap, so to speak.
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 3, 2007 14:35:30 GMT -5
I agree, I think there will be a story line, regarind cap being dead, dealing with how bucky and falcon deal with it, and how Sharon handles the guilt for killing him, I just think that skull has a plan, to torment Cap more.. I just can't picture Skull be satisfied with just having him shot.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 3, 2007 14:45:56 GMT -5
I don't see Marvel as stupid enough to kill off Cap and bring him back too soon. Does Brubaker have a long term plan to bring him bacK? I'd say so. But I'd bet on issue 50, since that's when he's planned up to. Either DotD part 9, the end of this year... which would be, I think Cap 34... or else Cap 50. Mark my words.
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Post by Sentry on Apr 3, 2007 17:04:00 GMT -5
I will be obvious but Cap must return very soon ,i still hope that is death was faked for some mysterious mission,like it happen in the past,it's already been hard in the past years seeing the Avengers without Thor,but without their inspiration,and in the hands of cynical people like Tony Stark,how long they will stay together?
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 3, 2007 22:07:06 GMT -5
Good point Sentry. In my perfect world, Thor and Cap would return simultaneously in Mighty Avengers with Cap holding everyone back while Thor trounces Ares. Ah yes.... happy thoughts.
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 3, 2007 22:39:25 GMT -5
I've already speculated on another board that issue #50 is a likely target for his return. I've added a few other thoughts here to kind of "round out" how I think things are going to be handled and why.
On the timing of Cap's return: I believe that Mr. Brubaker intends the timing of Cap's return to be taken as meta political commentary against President Bush and the current state of America without necessarily spouting politics like, say, Mark Millar would. Mr. Brubaker took over the title back in November '04, just after the '04 Presidential election. The title has been extremely punctual (outside of CW) which means that from the very beginning he knew that #50 would fall in Jan '09, just after President Bush leaves office. That is, if Mr. Brubaker could keep to schedule. Civil War introduced unforseen delays, and currently #50 will fall in Summer of '09. Even as late as Summer '09 it probably would still be taken as timely meta political commentary, not to mention fodder for that Summer's mega-money crossover. In the event of any further delay, watch whether Mr. Brubaker steps up the publication here and there to keep #50 on schedule for no later than Summer of '09. He might even pick up the pace to get back to a Jan '09 release. If you see this happening, I believe you can almost take it to the bank that Cap returns in #50, so keep your eyes peeled for any twice-monthly Cap releases.
On how the book will progress in the meantime: Mr. Brubaker must be aware of the fact that the Cap fanbase won't be infinitely patient, even with him. The book is titled "Captain America," and without Cap in some shape or form, sales will suffer sooner rather than later. And sales are the point of this entire exercise. However good people think the writing is, fans simply aren't going to buy one year, two years, or whatever, of the Cap book just to see Sharon, Nick, and the "Winter Soldier" busting heads and angsting. So ask yourself: what are his options at this point? 1)Replacement Cap story. OK, it's an option, but is it really an option? In other words, is this set up to work at this point? Older fans will remember the previous replacement Cap story by Gruenwald. In that story, Gruenwald carefully laid the groundwork for John Walker as the replacement. In this story, however, no such groundwork has been laid, with the very slight possibile exception of the "Winter Soldier." I also think that Mr. Brubaker consciously wants to steer away from any perceptions that he's being derivative of Gruenwald's replacement Cap story. Which brings us to "Bucky." Some have put forth the idea that "Bucky" will step in as Cap. I don't think this is going to happen, but I don't dismiss the idea out-of-hand either. I could make the argument that Mr. Brubaker may see it as further validating his resurrection of Bucky to have him step in as Cap. I can't really go farther than personal opinion here, but my feeling is no. Due to the above reasons, I don't believe that "replacement Cap" is going to be the direction of the book in the interim. 2)Continue to write the Captain America title without a Cap of any kind, just his supporting cast. Obviously a non-starter. 3)Go to a flashback-heavy format. This is my personal choice for how the book will be handled for the duration of this story. Flashback Cap stories still have rich potential for development, since surprisingly a lot of areas of Cap's life have never been touched on. WWII has almost limitless potential, both with and without the Invaders. Flashback Cap stories will give the fans a reason to buy the title while the hero is dead and the supporting cast works the problem in the modern day. I believe that the Invaders (in flashback) will become regulars. I believe that in particular Mr. Brubaker will develop Spitfire both in flashback and in the modern day, and I'm not saying that just on wishful thinking. Mr. Brubaker dropped some hints about this in "21st Century Blitz," and if I have learned anything from reading Mr. Brubaker's book for the last two years, it's that when he drops a hint, it's for a reason. Of course, I don't believe he can keep up this format forever without the fans getting restless, but I do think he can and will stretch it for two years. In the meantime he will further put his stamp on Cap's backstory via flashback, further develop characters he wants to use in the now via flashback (namely Bucky and Spitfire), and finally make a little covert political commentary when he's done.
So...any comments?
RSC
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 4, 2007 11:00:12 GMT -5
Oh My God.
This has to be unforeseen and unprecedented.
Besides occasional little remarks (For example, the negative implication about Millar) I actually agreed with almost everything you said, RSC.
I think I may need to lie down.
Congratulations and consider yourself exalted for an excellent and thought provoking post...
...I'm in shock.
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 4, 2007 13:33:57 GMT -5
lol
RSC
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 4, 2007 15:44:39 GMT -5
One question about your theory though RSC- given Marvel's liberal nature, what if a REPUBLICAN wins in '08 and makes things harsher?
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Post by balok on Apr 4, 2007 17:09:41 GMT -5
One question about your theory though RSC- given Marvel's liberal nature, what if a REPUBLICAN wins in '08 and makes things harsher? This thought makes me cry inside. But I doubt it will have much effect. In all likelihood, Brubaker and the folks at Marvel had a clear idea how long Cap would stay dead and how he would return. While Republican bungling makes a Democratic victory seem likely at this point, I doubt that a Republican victory would encourage Marvel to keep Cap dead for four more years.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 4, 2007 17:17:58 GMT -5
True enough, I was just pointing out that I doubt they'd pi nthe entire rationale for Cap's return on that.
I'd like to believe the American people aren't silly enough to be duped for the third time in a row but I have no confidence.
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 4, 2007 21:57:29 GMT -5
One question about your theory though RSC- given Marvel's liberal nature, what if a REPUBLICAN wins in '08 and makes things harsher? Because I know a lot of Democrats, and they hate President Bush with such a passion that it will not matter who comes next -- Democrat or Republican. It only matters to them that it isn't Bush. Your post also assumes the Democratic line that things are "harsh" or "fascistic" now. They aren't. This isn't Nazi Germany circa 1938. When Bush is gone all the Democrats have to do is stop calling it something it isn't and never was, and presto, they will then claim that things have improved. RSC
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 5, 2007 4:21:08 GMT -5
Well that's possibly because I'm a Democrat but while I'd never call it fascistic, I would call it...
...oh good God, this is a reverse of the civil war argument. Personally I'd rather be a meta in the America of the Marvel Universe than an Arab in the America of our real universe. I'm not being racist in any way as I have no problems with Arabs (I actually support them in the Israel Crisis for example), I just mean in terms of harshenss of the law and prebuilt notions.
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 5, 2007 11:51:59 GMT -5
Interesting comments, RSC. Like many here, I think we will see Steve Rogers back at some point. In the meantime, we will almost certainly see a 'new' Cap. I also don't think it will be Bucky - his sense of guilt over his actions as the Winter Soldier would make it impossible for him to put on the uniform. Most likely we'll get a replacement picked by Stark via the Initiative, or from within SHIELD ranks.
I do think that simply killing Cap is not enough for the Red Skull. Cap was his greatest enemy -really, his reason for being - and he'd definitely want him to suffer and/or be humiliated. I keep thinking, what happened to the cosmic cube? I recall that Cap used it to make Bucky remember who he was. Then Buck grabbed it, and appeared to crack it, while disappearing. But did we ever see that the cube was destroyed? Or what became of it later?
One idea that has rolled around in my head is this: the Skull uses the cosmic cube to make Cap into his own Winter Soldier. He could easily have used the cube to transport Steve from the hospital, and replace him with a duplicate. He then warps Steve into his own assassin. Eventually Bucky winds up freeing him, maybe sacrificing himself to do so.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 5, 2007 11:59:43 GMT -5
Bucky destroyed the cube when he teleported out.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 6, 2007 20:25:33 GMT -5
Because I know a lot of Democrats, and they hate President Bush with such a passion that it will not matter who comes next -- Democrat or Republican. RSC I'm a Republican and I feel the same way. Plus I think he is really the Red Shull in disguise.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 6, 2007 21:56:37 GMT -5
Because I know a lot of Democrats, and they hate President Bush with such a passion that it will not matter who comes next -- Democrat or Republican. RSC I'm a Republican and I feel the same way. Plus I think he is really the Red Shull in disguise. That was Dell Rusk.
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Post by scribbler357 on Apr 6, 2007 22:13:31 GMT -5
Did anyone think that Brubaker had already has a plan for the return of Cap (Steve). Think about it, he got something from Doom, he has Zola doing something for him. Doom could have supplied Skull with a way to trap Rogers soul, then Zola clones him, and they place the soul in the clone body, then Skull as Roger's trapped and showes him how bad the world has become without him there. To me that is so Skull, just shooting Roger's would never be enough, he would want to torture him. Well said. That's what I've been thinking the whole time. Remember, the Skull said this would be the beginning of his suffering. If you want someone to suffer, you don't just shoot them. Doom is then shown in Captain America vol. 5 #23 collaborating with the Red Skull on a weapon which will only "be the beginning" of Captain America's suffering. -- from Wikipedia
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 6, 2007 22:21:26 GMT -5
I thought they were just sharing recipes
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 7, 2007 9:24:43 GMT -5
That quote is inaccurate. Skull says the CIVIL WAR will only be the beginning of Cap's suffering, not the weapon.
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Post by balok on Apr 7, 2007 19:05:22 GMT -5
Did the Skull see the war coming, or have a hand in causing it?
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