Here's an with ROSS & KRUEGER ON AVENEGRS/INVADERS
Last August, Marvel and Dynamic Forces announced that Alex Ross and Jim Krueger’s next major epic length story (well, being told at the same time as Project Super Powers at Dynamite) would be Avengers/Invader - an in-continuity, 12 part series with art by Steve Sadowski that brings the World War II-era Invader to the present day Marvel Universe where they meet with the Avengers. Both teams of Avengers.
It’s been a while since the announcement, and the first issue has been solicited for May. We spoke with Ross and Krueger for an update on the project.
Newsarama: Jim and Alex, lets go back to the start of the project – as you've both said earlier, this was something that was originated by Dynamic Force’s Nick Barucci. What form did it take when it was first pitched to you?
Alex Ross: This was a loose idea going back years now, where the general hope was to reignite fan interest in the original characters Marvel had from the Golden Age. Avengers/Invaders was intended to be a doorway into a time period that boasted an incredible number of forgotten concepts, as well as the main group, which was a unique collective in the ‘40s and in their story revival in the ‘70s.
Jim Krueger: I think Nick originally pitched it to Marvel as the Avengers go into the past to see the Invaders. That's how the discussion began. But, of course, that was before Cap's death and at the beginnings of Civil War. A lot changed in the Marvel Universe and the idea of bringing the Invaders into the present became more and more attractive as an idea for the story.
NRAMA: What did you have to do with it in terms of turning it into what will see print in May?
AR: As with all projects Jim and I have worked on together, I contribute key story points and work on the plot construction with him. In many ways to get all the players on the same stage, it’s a riddle that we have to solve.
JK: Really, I think the key was imagining all the different problems that would arise if Steve Rogers, Cap, were suddenly walking around New York City again. That was almost the first tier of thinking. Then the idea was to think about each of the other Invaders and ask the questions as to what would happen to cause them drama in this day and age. For example. How would Namor feel about seeing himself as an adult? What would it be like for Toro to find that there is now a word for his ability to burst into flame (mutant)? What would the Original Human Torch do when he discovered that... (I don't think I want to tell this one)? And on and on. The development was all about asking the right kind of questions and then creating a story that dealt with those things. On the Avengers side, what's interesting is the chance some of them have to reach into the past, with all their regrets, and say something to their earlier selves. There's Iron Man's temptation to warn Cap. What will the Winter Soldier (the new Cap) say to Bucky? How will adult Namor speak to his teenage counterpart? And on and on.
NRAMA: It’s no secret that Marvel has a lot of balls in the air right now when it comes to the Avengers family of characters, with Captain America/Bucky and the upcoming Secret Invasion. It seems that the easier solution for this would have been to have made the project extra-continuity, but that’s not the case. How did you persuade Marvel to allow this story to exist in continuity? Or was much persuading needed?
AR: If you’re going to suggest crossing-over with the New and Mighty Avengers, there’s no reason to do it as a “what if.” The very nature of what makes those books exciting is the growing drama that has been set up these last few years. We hope that the mixing of Marvel’s Golden Age heroes with that lends them the same sense of immediacy and importance to their drama.
JK: Marvel does have balls. Their stuff is so good right now. Almost across the board. Back in the day when Alex and I did Earth X, we were kind of the only guys doing continuity at Marvel. But we wanted to play with everyone else, we wanted to be a part of the party this time. It's been great. We're lucky to have Tom Brevoort and Steve Wacker on our team at Marvel. Their notes and thoughts are making the project better.
NRAMA: Alex, for you, its been made a selling point, that this is your first, big, in-continuity project (well, separate from JSA) – was that something that was important to you?
AR: Marvel’s continuity is, in my opinion, the most exciting involving soap opera structure in comics today, and I’m excited to have the experience of being a part of it since I’ve only ever been removed before.
NRAMA: Let’s talk about the building blocks of the story – the Invaders are thrown from their time into the present-day Marvel Universe. What’s their response to the displacement?
JK: Well, initially, they don't know what time they're in. All they know is that there are armed guards on every corner in Times Square. It's not unlike the Germany that in WWII they're fighting to get to. Add to this the fact that they arrive right as the Thunderbolts have tracked Spider-Man down, and there isn't a lot of time to ask questions. The fact that the Swordsman has a German accent as well, well, that doesn't help.
NRAMA: Likewise, what’s the response of the modern-day Avengers to these interlopers? Does anyone believe the other in regards to who they say they are?
JK: There is some pretty thorough testing that gets done after the Invaders' initial incarceration to determine who they are, but this confinement becomes the linchpin basis of the New Avengers determining to rescue the Invaders.
NRAMA: Jim, you’ve worked with Alex for years on big storylines of similar scope – how does this one compare?
JK: What's different with this story is the emotional scope of guilt and grief. There's a great sense of irony to this. Iron Man would love to have Cap alive again. At the same time, he's still grieving and blaming himself for Cap's death. The story also reveals much of the unresolved pain that exists between the Avengers. It's very much an emotional story as opposed to a giant plot-based idea like, say, the Earth is an egg and superheroes are antibodies intended to protect it.
NRAMA: As you write this, what are the larger themes you’re either including or discovering? What questions is the story making you ask?
JK: As I mentioned, there's a sense of the high cost of getting exactly what you wished for. In fact, in many ways, this story is all about wishing. From Iron, to a particular soldier from WWII, to the Human Torch to the Winter Soldier, there are all these unfulfilled wishes that are about to come true. And at a cost greater than anyone could even imagine.
NRAMA: What’s the difference between characters from the ‘40s and characters from the present day in terms of your area of control? Do they speak differently? Different cadence? Different terms? Or are they normal as present day with an occasional Monty Burns word thrown in?
JK: The difference in characters is really a difference in their communities. The Avengers (both teams and as a whole) is terribly splintered and broken in how they relate to each other. All their interactions have a sort of symbolic and dire subtext. But with the Invaders, they're a team. They're friends, truly a band of brothers. And this makes them stronger.
NRAMA: We talked about continuity earlier, so let’s touch upon it again – what time are we talking about the Invaders arrival? Obviously, after Civil War…but is it before Secret Invasion? After? During?
AR: As far as I understand it, this co-exists with the Secret Invasion, but we’re completely unaware of any of the details of that series. Even though this project is set in Marvel continuity, it also endeavors to tell a complete tale that doesn’t demand of the reader that they go to too many other places to complete the whole drama they’re reading.
JK: Post Civil War. Post Bucky becoming Cap. Probably post Secret Invasion. I'm going to have to check on that. I don't know. It's also post Dark Phoenix Saga. Post Elektra Saga. Post Mutant Massacre. Post Birth of Franklin. (It is a time travel story. Just want to keep my facts straight).
NRAMA: Speaking of that last element, I think every comic book reader has seen a time travel story or three. What are some of the conventions that you took pains to stay away from? Any in particular that you embraced in telling your story?
AR: The key thing we want to try and hold to here is not to have a mind wipe or ret-conning of these events. As these sets of characters meet, no one will have to forget about the circumstances going into the future. It’s a tough tightrope to walk.
JK: We're not really focusing on the fact that time travel has happened. I'm very much keeping away from that. There's certainly a mystery surrounding that part of the plot. What this story is really about is how various people try to take advantage of its already happening. It opens up all kinds of opportunities for all kinds of people. And that becomes really fun, and appeals to even the hidden wants of even the greatest of heroes.
NRAMA: Can you give a feeling of the reaction to the heroes seeing Steve Rogers show up?
AR: Nonchalant, which is surprising. You’d think they’d care. [sarcastic]
JK: They freak out. And then they freak. It's like the best thing in the world until they work through all the ramifications. And then they need to cover it up, feeling even more guilty, knowing that Cap has to get back to his own time. It's very messy emotionally.
NRAMA: More specifically, how does Iron Man take it? He’s still carrying around a truckload of grief over that…
JK: Oh yeah, if Iron Man is at all guilty for Cap's death, this book and everything he has to go through in it, is sort of his penance.
NRAMA: With all of the Marvel history that you’ll be weaving in and out of with the characters, will you be touching upon Toro’s appearances in West Coast Avengers where he, not to put too fine a point on it, died in a battle with the Mad Thinker?
JK: Yep. I love Toro. I'm having a lot of fun writing him in the present time, mostly because he kind of likes being here.
NRAMA: Will Toro and Cap from the past know that they’ve died in the present day, or are the modern heroes going to keep it from them?
JK: I don't think Cap ever expected to still be alive. After all, he has no idea about the suspended animation that's coming. As to Toro, well, that's a different story. Their deaths is a secret that everyone's trying to keep from them, though.
NRAMA: This is probably subjective, but in your respective views, who are tougher – the Invaders or the respective Avengers? Both have seen their share of action, but, does your judgment lean one way or the other on who’s had to do the rougher work to get the job done?
AR: Realistically, the modern Avengers, particularly the Mighty Avengers, would be a stronger unit physically, but the Invaders have just come from the field of battle where, in World War II, it was kill or be killed. The Captain America who was stuck in time and reborn when the Avengers found him had to readjust to a time where he was a peacekeeper, not a warrior. It may not be an even match, but it’ll be interesting to see how it bears out.
JK: Oh, the Invaders for certain. But that's because they're a team. That's because they're together.
NRAMA: What’s the reaction time to the present day going to be like for the Invaders? Obviously, these are trained soldiers and warriors…they’re not going to have too much slack-jawed acclimation, are they?
AR: No.
JK: Issue #1 and the first half of Issue #2 really focus on this. They try to go home again, and it just doesn't work out so well, especially since they keep getting attacked, first by the Thunderbolts, then by the Mighty Avengers.
NRAMA: Who will have the easiest time of acclimation?
JK: Toro. As I said, he likes it here.
NRAMA: Who will have the hardest?
JK: The Original Human Torch. One of the subplots that gets introduced pretty early on in the series deals with something he saw in WWII that he never thought he'd see again. And then he sees it, here, in modern day America. It really does a number on him, so to speak.
NRAMA: Which Avengers group in the present day will claim them?
AR: Both Avengers groups have a vested interest in seeing how these guys are taken care of.
JK: Part of the conflict of the series is that both teams will fight over the Invaders and what should be done with them.
NRAMA: We’ve talked a lot about the two teams and their meeting, but what about villains – is there a central villain to the story?
AR: There will be a few, none of whom will be revealed quickly.
JK: Yes and No. There are a number of important villains that show up. But it's more like they're trying to take advantage of something, than causing it. Except, of course for ... but, I probably shouldn't mention that.
NRAMA: Alex – are you working with Steve on the art at all? If so, what’s the process like?
AR: Aside from initial historical reference and direction that I was pushing Steve in, like shooting for a 1940s-era, Bill Everett-style Namor and loaning Steve my Captain America shield, Steve needed no additional help from me. His style is one that I find an incredible kinship with, as our approaches are very similar.
NRAMA: Between the two of you, what kind of approvals do you have on the entire package, say, the coloring and design work?
AR: Everything. One of the fun things of working with Dynamite is getting to look over every last detail before it goes to print.
NRAMA: Final selling points – what’ve you got for the fence-sitters out there?
JK: I think my Spider-Man is funnier than he's been in a long time. Maybe irritatingly so. But that's his charm isn't it? In fact, his humor may be the reason he wasn't on the Avengers team before the last couple years. Anyhow, he's been a blast to write.
Here are some links to see some sketchs from Avengers/Invaders
i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Avengers_invaders/AvInv1-p10.jpgThunderBolts attacking Spider-Man
i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Avengers_invaders/AvInv1-p14.jpgThe Invaders enter the modern Marvel Universe
i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Avengers_invaders/AvInv1-p15.jpgSpider-Man watches the Invaders vs the ThunderBolts
i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Avengers_invaders/AvInv1-p17.jpgVenom traps Namor
i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Avengers_invaders/t_AveInvScan4.jpgRed Skull....Does he have the Cosmic Cube in his hand
i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Avengers_invaders/AveInvScan3.jpgCaptain America(The original)
