Starfox in “She-Hulk” #6–7

[The Night Phantom]

Former Avenger Eros/Starfox guest-stars in former Avenger She-Hulk’s comic, issues 6 and 7, the latter of which came out last week. Jennifer defends Eros when he’s accused of using his euphoria power to commit sexual assault. Possible spoilers follow.

I’m not sure what to make of this story. I enjoyed #6, which built up the situation nicely, but #7 has left me confused. Superficially, it appears that Eros is guilty of the charge: he uses his euphoria ability wantonly, to the point of apparently tampering with witnesses and the jury; he appears to have a lengthy history of committing acts similar to the one he’s being tried for; he flees the trial; and indeed, he seems to treat the entire case with insouciance. Eros has always had something of the devil-may-care rogue about him, but his behaviors in this issue are not worthy of the reputation he earned both before and during his time with the Avengers.

Is She-Hulk writer Dan Slott, intentionally or unintentionally, making a radical revision to Starfox’s character? or are things simply not as they appear (as hinted by his interrupted attempts to tell Shulkie he has something to explain)?

For one of the most simultaneously laudatory and scathing reviews I’ve ever read, see Tuesday’s write-up on the Silver Bullet Comic Books Web site.

What do you make of this storyline?

[Shiryu]

Hopefully there is an explanation for his behavious. He's always been an edonist and interested in pleasure, but never to the point that seems hinted in this issue. In the past he often proven himself an hero and essentially a good person (for example staying with Mar-vell girlfriend after his death)

[von Bek]

I think the problem here is taking a character from a pre-P.C. time and trying to view him trough modern sesibilities.
The story was very good, but it was really... well, creepy. And I fear we´re going from "comics are not only for kids" to "comics are not for kids at all".

[dlw66]

vonbek said:

The story was very good, but it was really... well, creepy. And I fear we´re going from "comics are not only for kids" to "comics are not for kids at all".

I agree. In regard to your comment, I felt the end of Infinite Crisis was way too bloody. Granted, the book was geared toward longtime DC fans, and perhaps most toward those who read Crisis when it first came out 20 years ago. That being the case, I guess they figure folks in their 30's and 40's like gore in their funnybooks. Me, I don't -- if I want that junk I can watch R-rated movies. I like good ol'-fashioned superheroing where despite the fact that Thor lays a guy upside the head with Mjolnir, no teeth are ever displaced .

[von Bek]

Depending on the writer I don´t mind gore in (some) books.
But for me the problem is we don´t know what to expect from a book anymore. She Hulk was probably tha last book I would expect to deal with such themes.
I remember reading stories with Starfox/Eros in the old Captain Marvel series, and now some 20 years later to learn that the guy used (and was using all along) his powers to rape women across the galaxy is very disturbing.
Marvel comics have dealt with sexuality before, but it was more subtle, now to have such matters shoved in the readers face is... creepy. And the fact that the story is well written and drawn make s it even more disturbing.

[The Night Phantom]

vonbek said:

Marvel comics have dealt with sexuality before, but it was more subtle, now to have such matters shoved in the readers face is... creepy.

In America, at least, this phenomenon of “upgrading” subtext into overt text has also become the norm in film, television, and song. Alas, even aside from the question of offensiveness, blatancy makes works less interesting, for the joy of layers is in the uncovering.

(I did not intend for that metaphor to be sexually charged, but, in a wonderful, serendipitous illustration of my point, I was delighted when I reread my phrasing and discovered the double entendre.)

And the fact that the story is well written and drawn make s it even more disturbing.

In my opinion that’s another problem with modern mass entertainment; production values are often so slick that they, too, lack anything interesting to glom onto. It’s like a surface without friction.

---

She-Hulk #7 does end with “continued...”. I had, judging from earlier descriptions of #s 6 & 7 and of #8 (which, unlike #6–7, is a Civil War tie-in), assumed that the Starfox plot would not continue in #8. Indeed, it’s reasonable to guess that the “continued...” notice actually refers to developments in Pug’s subplot (which was advanced by Starfox’s involvement but wouldn’t necessarily require his continued involvement), but maybe the issue of Starfox’s complicity or innocence will be revisited in the next issue. If not, perhaps that’s a story for another time, in these pages or others.

[spiderwasp]

vonbek said:

She Hulk was probably tha last book I would expect to deal with such themes.

Not sure I agree with that. When her previous series started up we saw her sleeping around an awful lot herself (Even with men she hardly knew at all) so I guess a precident for this kind of adult theme had been set.
Not that I'm saying I'm in favor of it. I enjoyed the Starfox story as an adult but I'd hate to think kids can't read comics anymore without resulting to the awful Marvel Adventures version of the Avengers. But after the tiny Wasp crawling out from under the sheets with the man who is no longer her husband in Avengers, and then her subsequent cheap thrills affair with Hawkeye, as a parent, I'd have to worry.
These things can be amusing but I think I'm still enough a child of the 60s and 70s to prefer my heroes to be reasonably good role models.

[The Night Phantom]

spiderwasp said:

I enjoyed the Starfox story as an adult but I'd hate to think kids can't read comics anymore without resulting to the awful Marvel Adventures version of the Avengers. But after the tiny Wasp crawling out from under the sheets with the man who is no longer her husband in Avengers, and then her subsequent cheap thrills affair with Hawkeye, as a parent, I'd have to worry.
These things can be amusing but I think I'm still enough a child of the 60s and 70s to prefer my heroes to be reasonably good role models.

Those interested can find some similar discussion coming from the reverse direction, in a thread about none other than Marvel Adventures Avengers itself.

Spiderwasp, I agree with your points. Not only do I think kids need and deserve “reasonably good role models”—but so do we old fogeys! (Even if we also indulge separately in more “adult” entertainment.)

[Shiryu]

I don't have kids but I'm along Spiderwasp line, and I also agree with Vonbek. Comics don't have to be for 3 years old kids, but they shouldn't be only for adults either, and it's disturbing that Marvel is going in that direction.
I was happy when Marvel dropped the Comics Code, but may be now things are going too far.

[dlw66]

I am glad I'm not alone on this. I wonder if outside these boards there are other longtime fans who feel the same way. As I've said, I have a pal in the industry and he's all about his 1st Amendment rights, creativity, the whole nine yards... But decency and access has to be considered. Many of us have said that we couldn't imagine ourselves picking up such stories as elementary or junior high kids. We shouldn't expect that our children today should feel threatened by such an interesting literary medium.

[von Bek]

spiderwasp said:

vonbek said:

She Hulk was probably tha last book I would expect to deal with such themes.

Not sure I agree with that. When her previous series started up we saw her sleeping around an awful lot herself (Even with men she hardly knew at all) so I guess a precident for this kind of adult theme had been set.

There´s a difference in showing the lead character viewing sex as joy and pleasure and turning a long time supporting cast character into some kind of pervert that uses his powers to seduce and, because he was actually forcing them against their will, rape young attractive women.
I´m not against any and every situation with sexual undertones in a superhero comic book, but She Hulk 7 was a little bit extreme.

[dlw66]

I have not read the books in question, but I'd like to ask if you read DC's Identity Crisis? Did you have the same feeling when the did the rape scene between Dr. Light and Sue Dibny? I did...

[Shiryu]

That makes you wonder.
Marvel often try to reflect real society in its comics, with issues like drug abuse, women power, racism etc. In the last few years comics have become very "grey" (as opposed to the "black and white" of their origin and the "grey-ish" that we had until a few years ago), with heroes not always being models anymore.
Wonder if this means that society is becoming darker and darker itself.

[dlw66]

I don't know how it is in Italy, but many say America is going to hell in a hurry. As a schoolteacher I can tell you it is unbelievable the living situations many of our students have, and we are very much a middle class, middle-America school. We are 50 miles outside the city of Chicago. And, we certainly do have plenty of kids who come from what one might consider stable homes -- but some of these kids are so mentally and emotionally soft and such followers that they get sucked into negative behaviors. I feel our media is much to blame, bombarding us with negativity. I also feel that we can be a selfish, all-about-me people -- divorce is rampant, church attendance is down, spending on status symbols is up, and on and on.

But really, this is a great place to live! ;D

Comics used to be my escapism, a fantasy world where some good guy was going to make things right. Shiryu, you are correct in your assessment that the line between good and bad has been blurred. The aforementioned mind-wiping scene in Identity Crisis is just part of it.

[von Bek]

dlw66 said:

I have not read the books in question, but I'd like to ask if you read DC's Identity Crisis? Did you have the same feeling when the did the rape scene between Dr. Light and Sue Dibny? I did...

To make things worse when I read IC I was reading at the same time "Formerly Know as the Justice League".

[Shiryu]

dlw66 said:

Comics used to be my escapism, a fantasy world where some good guy was going to make things right. Shiryu, you are correct in your assessment that the line between good and bad has been blurred. The aforementioned mind-wiping scene in Identity Crisis is just part of it.

It's especially worrying if we consider that comic books characters are wrote so that readers can identify in them. As such, a darkening of the characters can reflect a darkening of the readers. For example, tieing to the Avengers, I didn't like the talk that Iron Man gave to Cap to justify Wolverine joining the group (basically "we need a killer", despite the fact that "Avengers don't kill" has been one of the strongest point of the team for 40 years.

As for the society in the States, what happens there usually happens in Europe about 5 to 10 years later, and I've noticed a lot of that myself.

[dlw66]

shiryu said:

For example, tieing to the Avengers, I didn't like the talk that Iron Man gave to Cap to justify Wolverine joining the group (basically "we need a killer", despite the fact that "Avengers don't kill" has been one of the strongest point of the team for 40 years.

For me the low point in Avengers history was when the Black Knight killed the Supreme Intelligence. That crossed a line that Captain America had been very clear on.

[Shiryu]

I didn't read that issue but I've heard about it. As far as I know, Cap had a really bad reaction and nearly left the Avengers for good, before being convinced by Demolition Man and someone else to stay.

[The Night Phantom]

dlw66 said:

Comics used to be my escapism, a fantasy world where some good guy was going to make things right.

shiryu said:

It's especially worrying if we consider that comic books characters are wrote so that readers can identify in them.

While my personal feelings about comics tend to resonate with these statements, I think we should avoid the temptation to confuse medium with genre or medium with theme. For me also, comics are generally a vehicle for escapism, and I generally prefer them to have a moral compass that espouses the traditional heroic ideal and/or other virtues...but that sort of entertainment is not the only legitimate use of comics—it’s not even the only use that I enjoy (even if it’s the primary one)—any more than television, cinema, music, or other arts must adhere to the same or similarly rigid criteria.

Still, I share the same feeling of dismay expressed by others in this thread. But my disappointment is not that there are “other” comics—it’s not even so much that there are fewer of “my” comics—it’s that I both prefer and have been given reason to expect certain series and/or characters to inhabit a particular emotional and ethical space, and now they are migrating out of it. Doug said it pretty well in another thread:

dlw66 said:

I guess my deal is, if I want an edgier story I should know where to find it. For example, the Batman tale Ultimate Evil was about as edgy as it gets (child prostitution/porn industry in SE Asia), but I also like access to just good ol' four-color fun. Some of Miller's DD stuff is great -- should that be on the newstands?

Again, freedom of expression is a fundamental right in most western nations. But so should be the right to expect decency in certain contexts.

Superhuman (not necessarily superhero) comics of a different stripe are a legitimate pursuit, in my opinion—but why not produce them using new characters (e.g., The Authority or Mark Waid’s Empire)?

[The Night Phantom]

This morning I came across a sign that the Starfox storyline may be receiving some resolution soon, thanks to a Comic Book Resources report on the “Mondo Marvel” panel at Wizard World Philadelphia yesterday:

She-Hulk will get back to the Starfox case in the fall, with a trial on Titan.

Other She-Hulk and non-She-Hulk news is also proffered.

[Shiryu]

Does anyone know how did it finish here in the end ? is Starfox guilty or was there an explanation behind his actions ?

[The Night Phantom]

shiryu said:

Does anyone know how did it finish here in the end ? is Starfox guilty or was there an explanation behind his actions ?

After #6–7, Starfox disappeared from She-Hulk for a little while. In #12, which came out this week, he undergoes a trial on Titan “to put to rest the unseemly charges off-worlders have levied against him”. Shulkie participates in the trial, which is interrupted by the arrival of Thanos. To be continued (and, I think, concluded) next issue.

In the meantime, it has been confirmed that Starfox’s use of his euphoria power did ramp up Jen’s relationship with John Jameson. However, some of the euphoria effects that came about around that same time (included the “extended” Jen–John euphoria) were actually produced by Awesome Andy, who has the power to mimic superpowers. The question of whether Starfox is guilty of the act he was being tried for in #6–7 or whether he ever used his power to take advantage of Jen or other teammates remains unsettled.