"But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile." --Patrick O'Brian
Joined: Oct 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 196 Location: EU Karma: 1
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #1 on Oct 30, 2005, 2:38pm »
A somewhat entertaining travesty. I'd even say these days Marvel deliberatly puts out travesties just to get the extra units sold.
Really enjoyed v1 up till #5. Then it wavered till the volume ended and i lost my interest. Still checked out v2's first issues - seemed like more of the same shock+political satire+outrageous mischaracterization formula. Not buying it these days... from Marvelhead to reading DC comics is, in the end, what the Ultimates ended up with for me.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 15 Location: Warren, Ohio Karma: 0
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #2 on Nov 3, 2005, 9:49pm »
It serves its purpose. Unfortunately, each issue can be read through in less than 5 minutes, and seems to accomplish very little. The characters and surprises keep me coming though.
Those were the days, my friend; we thought they'd never end...
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,549 Location: Chicagoland -- due south! Karma: 75
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #3 on Nov 4, 2005, 12:25pm »
I've enjoyed the Ultimates for what it is -- the post-Dark Knight era's version of the Avengers. It's good to me in its own right, which makes me not really like what Bendis has done on New Avengers all the more. We have alternate characterizations and some risk taking -- keep the Avengers "classic" as we who liked the Thomas/Englehart/Stern/and even Busiek times think they should be.
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #4 on Nov 4, 2005, 10:46pm »
Okay, let me start off by saying I like the classic Avengers alot but I find the Ultimates Hugely Entertaining, even though the page count in each issue makes me just wait for the graphic novels to come out. So far, anyway, the characters have remained true to what they are, the artwork is good, and they keep the action moving. Favorite quote: "You think this letter on my head stands for France?" Not because I hate the French, or France, but just because it is so macho. I would also like to agree with dlw66's sentiments concerning this title with the New Avengers. Keep the Avengers classic and the Ultimates, well, er, ultimate.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 7 Location: Maryland Karma: 0
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #5 on Nov 4, 2005, 10:51pm »
Entertaining to the max! After Planetary, this title keeps me entertained the most month after month. My monthly stacks are pretty high, but this one makes me feel like I always get my money's worth each and every month.
Don't agree or disagree with anyone or against anyone, I just like it for what it is...a comic.
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #6 on Nov 5, 2005, 5:40pm »
I haven't been a real fan of Ultimates, but I did read some of the Thor might be a crazy eco-terrorist storyline. I think it fit that world really well
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 30 Location: NYC Karma: 1
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #7 on Nov 5, 2005, 9:07pm »
I like the Ultimates for the most part.
I agree that for the price we should get more pages and should not have to wait months for the next issue, but who are we to complain to Marvel- JUST the folk that buy the comic.
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #11 on Feb 11, 2006, 4:39pm »
Quote:
I would say both-- often at the same time. Thoughts?
Completely agree. I will say this, though: The Ultimates is far closer to the "classic" Avengers than The New Avengers. At least they don't count Wolverine or Spider-Man amongst their membership...
Mark Millar used to be a really good old school Silver Age-type writer, but it seems like once he started doing the Authority, he became hellbent on out-Ellising Ellis. The problem is, a careful read of Ellis's work reveals that below the surface cynicism and shock elements, Ellis is a humanitarian. Millar just seems to want to shock people for the sake of shocking people. Plus the constant Hollywood c**ksucking in The Ultimates is really tired; I mean, in the "commentary" in the back of the hardcover, every other line is like "Joss Whedon bought the original page as a wedding gift for Freddie Prinze, Jr." or "Sam Jackson's wife contacted Bryan about buying this page." When you mix reality and fantasy to that degree, it's jarring, and it makes Millar look like a starstruck Hollywood wannabe instead of a serious writer.
Van Plexico Administrator Vanlactus member is offline
Joined: Oct 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 665 Location: St. Louis Karma: 22
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #13 on Feb 25, 2006, 11:29am »
I've come to feel the same way, now that I no longer live in fear that ULTIMATES will actually replace AVENGERS (of course, while what DID replace AVENGERS is not quite as directly offensive to the team's mythos and history and characters and fans, it's also, IMO, mostly unreadable).
"But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile." --Patrick O'Brian
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,199 Location: Austin, Texas Karma: 36
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #14 on Feb 27, 2006, 6:05pm »
Hey Van--Ultimates, in my view, is a hell of a lot more faithful to the concept of the Avengers than the New Avengers, skewed as it is. Millar takes the concepts of the individual characters and puts a wierd spin on them, and 99% of the time it's fascinating. I agree it shouldn't replace the Marvel Universe Avengers but good GOD at least Millar understands the characters, unlike Bendis. I think Millar has put a great spin on the legacy, whereas Bendis has destroyed their identity.
Van Plexico Administrator Vanlactus member is offline
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Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #15 on Mar 1, 2006, 9:53pm »
I can't disagree, Bob. Exaggerated distortions are, in this case, IMO, preferable to utterly bland mis-characterizations (with lots of splash pages, and whole arcs turned over to, say, annoying SHIELD agents, ninjas, and/or Emma Frost)...
"But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile." --Patrick O'Brian
Van Plexico Administrator Vanlactus member is offline
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Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #17 on Mar 12, 2006, 1:46pm »
Loved that scene, though I thought it seemed more like something Bullseye would do / be able to do, than a Hawkeye ability. But then, this is Ultimate Hawkeye, who ain't nothin' like the Clint I've always known.
It reminded me of the Daredevil issue that the DD movie was based on, where Bullseye breaks out of prison. (And wouldn't the DD movie have been cool if it had started with that cool prison escape bit with Bullseye? Ah, well...)
"But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile." --Patrick O'Brian
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,199 Location: Austin, Texas Karma: 36
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #18 on Mar 14, 2006, 12:45pm »
Yeah Ultimate Hawkeye is very similar to Bullseye from the Frank Miller years. It makes sense though.
You know Van I wouldn't mind Bendis so much if people didn't act like he was sucha fantastic writer. Marvel's had tons of crappy writers over the years, but nobody ever elevated any of them to sainthood before. Miller, Millar, Claremont, Buziek, and others were all great in their own ways and deserve their reputations--whether you like their styles or not. But Bendis' Avengers stuff is just plain bad from every angle. I'm not trying to be a pain in the azz here, but it's true. Bendis clearly doesn't even know who these characters are. Just the way he handles Captain America is enough to make me hurl. Who is this pouting, mopy imposter? Do you all remember that one panel early on where Captain America's little wings on his head were drooping? I bursted out laughing!!! OKAY BENDIS--WE GOT IT!!! CAPTAIN AMERICA IS SAD!!!!!!
Van Plexico Administrator Vanlactus member is offline
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Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #19 on Mar 14, 2006, 1:03pm »
I hadn't read much Bendis at all, before he took over AVENGERS. So I, too, was shocked at just how popular he was, given the lack of quality of NEW AVENGERS (and the far worse handling of Disassembled) (both IMO, of course).
So I have gone and read a few TPBs of ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN and DAREDEVIL at the library, and I have to say-- they're pretty darned good.
The only thing I can figure is that 1) he understands those characters better, and is better able to write them appropriately and in interesting situations, and 2) he's better with individual character books than with groups.
Comparing some of the great pacing and dialogue in ULTIMATE SPIDEY to any issue of NEW AVENGERS... wow, NA just pales in comparison. And comparing even an experimental/untraditional storyline like DD: Decalogue to the ridiculous Sentry and ninja arcs in NA, for example.... ugh. The same guy wrote those?!
As I have said before, if anyone other than Bendis had turned in the scripts for half of the NEW AVENGERS issues thus far, they'd have been thrown in the trash.
"But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile." --Patrick O'Brian
Those were the days, my friend; we thought they'd never end...
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,549 Location: Chicagoland -- due south! Karma: 75
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #20 on Mar 14, 2006, 1:09pm »
Great point on the Ultimate Spider-Man trades, which I love. I have not read any of his Daredevil, although it comes highly recommended to me by a friend whose opinions I trust. Bendis' take on Spidey is reminiscent of Stan Lee's, with the banter between characters, the wise-cracking, etc. It seems to work great.
As for the Avengers, I guess I don't see why he would continue to do this when it just doesn't work (there must be someone somewhere who does think it is working...). I'm not saying the man should be a quitter, but for crying out loud, recognize that you just don't have it and step aside! Do the things you're good at and be big enough to let someone else take over the things that you're not good at!
But I digress from the Ultimates thread... I hope the book stays on time. It has some momentum as it starts toward a close. Have you heard who the next creative team is, though? I heard Loeb and McGuiness, of the first Superman/Batman arc. OK in their own right, but not in my opinion as followers to what Millar and Hitch have done of the past 36 months or so.
Van Plexico Administrator Vanlactus member is offline
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Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #21 on Mar 14, 2006, 1:12pm »
That's who I've heard, yes.
I knew nothing of Loeb-- he's always been mostly DC, I'm mostly Marvel, obviously-- but I recently read BATMAN: HUSH and SUPERMAN/BATMAN: SUPERGIRL, and was totally blown away. Fantastic stuff.
So I have a better feeling about it than I did before.
Plus-- while I do admit Millar is very talented and doesn't write many dull comics, he makes choices I would never make, and offends me as often as not with what he does with the characters.
So it might not be as "edgy" as it was with Millar, but that may not be entirely a bad thing...
"But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile." --Patrick O'Brian
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,199 Location: Austin, Texas Karma: 36
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #23 on Mar 15, 2006, 10:50am »
Have you all seen Millar's take on the Avengers in The Authority? Millar makes Jack Kirby into a crazed super villain who creates genetically modified supervillains and they are all patterned after the Avengers! It was amazing!
Those were the days, my friend; we thought they'd never end...
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,549 Location: Chicagoland -- due south! Karma: 75
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #24 on Jun 8, 2007, 8:07am »
Now that the first two "seasons" of Ultimates are over, and before the third one (that has us wondering about the quality of the art after Hitch's brilliant run) comes out, I am wondering where Ultimate readers would now place this in terms of greatness or disdain in the annals of Avengerdom?
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Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #25 on Jun 8, 2007, 8:13am »
Well personally speaking I think Ultimates is a classic beyond doubt and "Grand Theft America" is among the best stories I have read in... well, ever. It's one of maybe two stories in recent years I'd say deserve to be instant classics.
Mind you the other is "Civil War" so what do I know!?
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Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #27 on Jun 8, 2007, 12:38pm »
Doom trusts you know him well enough by now doug, that you are not so foolish as to aim it towards the second of my points so thank you for the agreement.
Those were the days, my friend; we thought they'd never end...
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,549 Location: Chicagoland -- due south! Karma: 75
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #28 on Jun 8, 2007, 1:38pm »
If that's the way you feel about it...
Seriously, I really liked both "volumes" or "seasons", or whatever Marvel called them. I don't know where they fit on my all-time list, or even my Avengers list, but I can tell you that despite the frustration inherent in the delays, this was a title I really looked forward to each time I saw it on the Diamond shipping list and always put it on top of the to-read pile (usually reading it same day).
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 2,041 Location: South Cakalaki Karma: -12
Re: Travesty or hugely entertaining?? « Reply #29 on Jul 13, 2007, 8:42pm »
Quote:
Hey Van--Ultimates, in my view, is a hell of a lot more faithful to the concept of the Avengers than the New Avengers, skewed as it is. Millar takes the concepts of the individual characters and puts a wierd spin on them, and 99% of the time it's fascinating. I agree it shouldn't replace the Marvel Universe Avengers but good GOD at least Millar understands the characters, unlike Bendis. I think Millar has put a great spin on the legacy, whereas Bendis has destroyed their identity.
amen amen and amen
I found myself thinking along almost identical lines Bobc. I think thats what drew me in so fast.
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