Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 407 Karma: 20
No Avengers Prime thread? « Thread Started on Jun 4, 2010, 1:40pm »
I... didn't hate it. For me and bendis, that's as a rave review. The first five pages are his typical talking heads and it didn't ring true to me, but the rest...I was okay with. I'm as stunned as it gets on that. I would've sworn that Alan Davis was co-plotter as I usually like his stuff, but it was all bendis. I'm gonna go open that ice skating rink in hell now...
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,799 Location: England / Italy Karma: 101
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #1 on Jun 4, 2010, 2:18pm »
I was going to post something similar later on. There were even several pages of Steve fighting, is that really Bendis writing?
Even the first few pages kind of make sense in view of Civil War, although they kind of contradict the recent relationship between Cap and Tony in very recent IM issues.
"Cease to resist me, and you may live to see another day!" --SuperSkrull
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,378 Location: DC Metropolitan area Karma: 57
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #2 on Jun 5, 2010, 5:17am »
Now wait-- which title is Avengers Prime? Is Avengers Heroic Age #1 not actually the beginning of the monthly Avengers title? Yeesh-- has the relaunch itself turned into a multi-crossover, mega-tiltled event? (Well-- yes, it clearly has--- that was obvious when I dropped by an LCS last week. . . )
So-
Secret Avengers New Avengers Avengers and Avengers Academy
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,799 Location: England / Italy Karma: 101
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #3 on Jun 5, 2010, 5:21am »
Prime is a five-issues mini, set more or less between the end of Siege and Avengers #1. It focuses on the relationship between Steve, Thor and Tony, and it is stated to show how they rebuild their friendship after everything that happened since Civil War. It's by Bendis and Davis.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,799 Location: England / Italy Karma: 101
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #5 on Jun 5, 2010, 2:49pm »
Trinity, by Busiek and Bagley was 52 weekly issues, so it lasted a whole year But I think it was collected in 3 tpb volumes, so perhaps that's where the confusion is coming from.
Trinity, by Busiek and Bagley was 52 weekly issues, so it lasted a whole year But I think it was collected in 3 tpb volumes, so perhaps that's where the confusion is coming from.
I believe Goldenfist is referring to Matt Wagner's Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity, a 3-issue limited series from 2003.
It was issued as a collection circa 2005, here's an image:
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #8 on Jun 12, 2010, 11:49pm »
I got Avengers Prime #1 this week and enjoyed it. I got it mainly for the Alan Davis art (whose style reminds me of Neal Adams) and because I like the Big Three (Cap, Iron Man & Thor) who are the core of the group as far as I'm concerned. (Any Avengers team without one of them doesn't really seem like The Avengers to me.)
I dropped the Avengers titles from my pull list a few years ago (circa #25), although I've been buying Cap's series during all this time. I found the argument between Steve and Tony in Avengers Prime #1 to ring a bit false to me... I think these are two guys who can iron out their differences (no pun intended) in a more rational way, rather than getting in each other's faces and being emotional about it. I never bought the idea of them being on opposite sides.
A big plus was seeing Iron Man in his traditional 1970s armor. Hope he sticks with it... that's the armor I grew up with, and will always be THE Iron Man armor for me.
"Cease to resist me, and you may live to see another day!" --SuperSkrull
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,378 Location: DC Metropolitan area Karma: 57
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #9 on Jun 13, 2010, 5:44am »
Well, heck-- okay, I'll go out and pick this up, then, and give it a try. In the abstract (at this point), I do have a huge problem w/ Cap and Tony being able to resolve Civil War damage to their relationship that- simply put- would HAVE to have been irreparable. But there's no way around the fact that getting back to an enjoyable, recognizable status quo at this point will require a willing & sizable amount of plausibility-swallowing. . .
(Maybe with some chocolate syrup, it won't be so bad. . . )
Heya Rimes! Very fine initial post--- thanks for ringing in, and continue to add to the multi-various conversations!
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #10 on Jun 13, 2010, 6:28pm »
Thanks for the welcome! I think Prime is a bi-monthly (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so it might not be too big of an investment to follow (altho it is $3.99). The faster that they can repair the Tony/Steve rift, and bring back the traditional status quo, the better IMO!
"Cease to resist me, and you may live to see another day!" --SuperSkrull
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,378 Location: DC Metropolitan area Karma: 57
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #12 on Jun 19, 2010, 4:02pm »
Picked it up yesterday & just read it while making lunch. And I too didn't hate it. Davis' art, of course, is just top, top notch. Man, he's been around for quite a long time, and his work is still fresh, clever, vibrant and alive. Mark Farmer's inks look terrific over him (although I can't think of anyone who hasn't benefited from his brush--- he's a terrific, clean-line embellisher, also been around for quite awhile. Is he a star, and I'm just not aware of it?). Davis' visual story-telling adheres faithfully to Stan's oldest maxim that the art should be capable of getting the story across w/out the words, if necessary. Many of the newer, astoundingly gifted comic artists still haven't grasped or acknowledged that simple rule, I think. (I may be overgeneralizing, though).
The dialogue and story were fine. They really were. If I hadn't known it was Bendis, I. . . . . . wouldn't have known it was Bendis. Mostly full sentences. Steve, Tony, and Thor actually sound like three different people. And though it may cost me the good will of some of my dear comrades here, I felt like there was a respect and appreciation exhibited for these characters as they had been established for years before BMB's handling of their world. I hate to use this silly phrase again, but- it felt "Avengery".
And maybe it's just nice to see that even BMB yields the fact that, anytime, anywhere, Steve is pretty much the best there is. He's still Cap, regardless of what he's wearing or even what he's called. Maybe this'll work out. . .
"Cease to resist me, and you may live to see another day!" --SuperSkrull
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,378 Location: DC Metropolitan area Karma: 57
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #18 on Aug 10, 2010, 2:32pm »
Wow, and again, I really, really enjoyed this 2nd issue! This is very weird, 'cause I don't feel like this is the same writer who's doing New Avengers at all. There's a clear, well-structured, paralleled storyline going on. The characters- both main & supporting- seem to have depth and life, and don't all sound exactly like each other ('though that element could still stand some beefing-up), and Tony, Steve & Thor are all behaving within the historical parameters of their established characterizations. There's a sense of respect for them, as opposed to the "I'm the writer so I can do whatever the blazes I want w/ the characters" tack that I honestly expected. Steve doesn't toss around swear words. Thor doesn't make inappropriate comical statements. Everyone isn't just a vehicle for clever wiseacre comments.
This kind of implicates BMB a little unfavorably, in fact, because it shows that he can indeed be a fine, disciplined, traditional comic book writer, and that it's his choice to cling so vigorously to that self-indulgent, snarky, undisciplined "style" that seems to resemble an artistic monkey on his back more than anything.
I mean, over in Avengers #3 we've already stalled into the kind of incomprehensible, loosely-plotted mess that I suppose is his "trademark" for the title. It's kind of achieving the difficult task of being both stagnant and chaotic at the same time. Endless oh-so-clever quips, nobody listening to each other, unclear action that isn't fully explained--- all combined with JRjr's dynamic but often hard-to-follow art (I totally did not get, initially, that the horseman were transmogrified Avengers), and way, way, WAY too many "hot" characters, has me shaking the book in the air, crying out- "What the blazes is going on here?? And when are we going to advance the PLOT??!!??"
Hmm-- accidentally did a double commentary. Sorry 'bout that.
HB
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2010, 12:50pm by humanbelly »
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #19 on Aug 29, 2010, 12:08pm »
I've liked the art a lot on these and I like the idea of the big three in Asgard as Cap and Iron Man have barely been there (all the mythological avengers stories i remember seem to be greek based)
I'm just not sure how it all fits with Thor's own book which has an earth based Hela who has only just made a deal with Mephisto for a slice of his realm. This was only about 3 months ago in a cross over Bendis wrote.
Maybe the big three are actually in Hell and she's just been very busy collecting the dead but the story itself seems to be going down the line of this being a long term thing and something to do with the state of the 9 worlds once Thor moved Asgard to earth.
My first real Bendis avengers story and already I'm confused by the continuity.
I've liked the art a lot on these and I like the idea of the big three in Asgard as Cap and Iron Man have barely been there (all the mythological avengers stories i remember seem to be greek based)
I'm just not sure how it all fits with Thor's own book which has an earth based Hela who has only just made a deal with Mephisto for a slice of his realm. This was only about 3 months ago in a cross over Bendis wrote.
Maybe the big three are actually in Hell and she's just been very busy collecting the dead but the story itself seems to be going down the line of this being a long term thing and something to do with the state of the 9 worlds once Thor moved Asgard to earth.
My first real Bendis avengers story and already I'm confused by the continuity.
I had the impression that Asgard's status in this story is the same as what's going on in Thor's book, although I haven't examined it too closely. The whole Nine-Worlds-Packed-Into-a-Smaller-Host-Dimension thing seems to be playing out in both. Avengers Prime, though, is theoretically preceding any current events in Thor's book, yes?
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #21 on Aug 29, 2010, 3:42pm »
I'm not totally up to date with Thor, the last stuff I read was during the Siege, at that point Hela was based on earth and complaining about not having a realm. So Loki got her one from Mephisto. avengers prime picked up minutes after the siege didn't it? everyone was still in the wreckage at the begining when Steve chewed out Tony.
Maybe everything else from the nine worlds has been packed into the bit of Hell she bought from Mephisto and it all actually makes sense.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,799 Location: England / Italy Karma: 101
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #23 on Sept 1, 2010, 7:53pm »
If I remember correctly, the Loki/Hela subplot doesn't come from Siege, but from a tie-in, Siege:Loki, not written by Bendis, which could explain the inconsistencies with what happens here, although the most logical explanation is that the other 7 worlds have been packed in Mephisto's realm (but one would wonder where they were before the Loki/Mephisto deal).
Despite this, I have enjoyed issue 2 too, nice pacing for a change and once again great art. Perhaps Tony is a bit off, more of a comedian than his usual self, but he has been portrayed in so different lights over the years that it doesn't bug me too much. I'd rather have him this way than as in Civil War.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,799 Location: England / Italy Karma: 101
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #24 on Nov 14, 2010, 3:12pm »
Having just read #4, I can't believe Bendis is writing this. Except for a very annoying Tony, I think this is a great book so far. Thor in particular is spot on.
"Cease to resist me, and you may live to see another day!" --SuperSkrull
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,378 Location: DC Metropolitan area Karma: 57
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #25 on Nov 21, 2010, 12:36pm »
I couldn't agree more. It boggles my mind to say it, but this is the title I look forward to right now. Geeze, I surely wish it wasn't a mini. And even though Tony is quite annoying, it's not bald-facedly-out-of-character annoying-- and it does help differentiate him from Steve. But I'm still inclined to give the lion's share of the credit to Alan Davis, as he exhibits a tremendous and versatile grasp of visual story-telling. I think in nearly any other artist's hands, that moment where Thor mentions that he "may" have slept w/ Tigra (or wait-- was it Patsy Walker? I'd have to go & check. . . ) comes off as a horribly crass, out-of-character, "look what a cool edgy writer I am", shock-for-its-own-sake, quintessentially Bendis moment. But Davis' focus on visual pace and subtle facial expressions (lord, PLEASE take note, JRjr!) makes the moment seem natural, plausible, and believable. It absolutely works. And I think the credit for that is fully Davis'. But still, Tony's hopelessly sexist playboy comments, Steve's giving a quiet but direct reprimand about them-- this is all good-writer stuff. Why is it only happening here???
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #26 on Nov 21, 2010, 1:34pm »
I enjoyed 4 a lot, I still don't really see how it fits with events in the last Thor arc which also featured Hela (and which I felt was very good) but Thor himself is written far better than in Fractions first few issues and I like the take on Cap. tony is a bit flippant but I can see how he would be in this situation.
I really liked the handling of the enchantress and fafnir as well, ok Amora's motivation needs a bit of explaining but she wasnt just tossed around to show off the power of a new threat which seems to be the standard fate of older villains these days.
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Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #27 on Nov 21, 2010, 9:44pm »
I know I'm just being stubborn at this point, but I can't bring myself to throw any money toward Bendis. Even if people say it is good, I have given him too many chances to risk being stung again. Besides, supporting him in ANY title just helps to reinforce to marvel that he is the supreme writer. If I'm honest, I'm even sorry to hear that you are all are enjoying it. I want him to bomb at this point so that eventually he'll just go away.
I know I'm just being stubborn at this point, but I can't bring myself to throw any money toward Bendis. Even if people say it is good, I have given him too many chances to risk being stung again. Besides, supporting him in ANY title just helps to reinforce to marvel that he is the supreme writer. If I'm honest, I'm even sorry to hear that you are all are enjoying it. I want him to bomb at this point so that eventually he'll just go away.
I gotta agree with spider-wasp-----even if Bendis killed off Thor, Cap, and Iron Man in one issue----I wouldn't buy it (okay, maybe when it hit the 50-cent bin). I ask myself, why is bendis still around?---but I guess somebody likes it.
"Cease to resist me, and you may live to see another day!" --SuperSkrull
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,378 Location: DC Metropolitan area Karma: 57
Re: No Avengers Prime thread? « Reply #29 on Nov 24, 2010, 7:08am »
Oh, fellas, fellas, fellas-
But you're missing what is, objectively, a darned good story, here. I'm probably pretty much on par with you as far as how much I dislike the way Bendis has handled the Avengers (and really, the MU on the whole). But, if anything (and I think I've hit upon this before), the way he's working on Avengers Prime seems to me to be an indictment of how he's operated everywhere else for the past several years. The difference between this title and AVENGERS is so absurdly Jekyll & Hyde that it largely proves that Bendis has a choice in how he operates, and has been making the easy, self-indulgent choice for far, far too long. It indicates that he is (as suspected) a talented writer who has been shamelessly squandering his talents; rather than do his homework, and attend to the basics of his craft, and take the time to critically assess his own work, he has for years now been operating on whim, and relied on "shock" value and a snarkily-amusing way with words to carry him along. And has somehow convinced both a lot of readers and the folks above him that this was Good Writing. But again- Avengers Prime hasn't been in that mold. It's disciplined, respectful, pretty well-paced (still a touch slow), and it seems to make sense within itself. And again, again-- one can't give enough credit to Alan Davis as a visual storyteller for making this work. Granted, we're likely delving into almost a political arena here, but a case could be made that this book's success could be interpreted as, "HERE is the kind of Avengers title we want to read! PLEASE give us more of this!"
(Okay, but I may be hopelessly optimistic that the message will be received that clearly. . . )
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But I think it was collected in 3 tpb volumes, so perhaps that's where the confusion is coming from.
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